Granny Smith.
How’s this for an idea
It's not very good. How do you intend to hold a/c
closer to the field at up to 13 000' ? You won't get them down and they'll get vectors all over the place to lose height. The mechanics of holding mean that the longer the hold runs, the higher and higher the aircraft are (if the in-trail-spacing leaving the hold is less than the distance around a pattern). You would also have to deal with the low-level overflyers (C130s etc) and insertions (Kish Isl). Departures would also be held down for a long time. I still don't see the problem with holding as we are now, and APP owning the bottom 2 levels. Holding is a vertical thing, so I have no idea why you want a/c run INTO the hold with 10nm spacing. Bringing them OUT of the hold is where the spacing is achieved. Also, how is the problem of the vectors after holding addressed? Read the pilot comments. It is almost a safety issue that at the moment we bring them out 10nm or whatever spaced, then APP still has to synchronise east, west and AUH arrivals. Flowing for threshold arrival times solves all that. It isn't rocket science, and could easily be achieved either manually or via automation (MAESTRO etc)
This simplifies the task for everyone and gives the customer the best service
Forcing them down early to hold at low altitude? Not exactly 'the best service'. Issuing gate or threshold arrival times so that sequencing can commence whilst still prior to TOD is a much better option for the customer. Especially with modern avionics. The AN12s etc just have to be 'pushed'.
Fly through.
We've just been applying a blanket 20m flow over the last 2 nights when it's been busy
Yeah, it makes it really easy for APP, but the ACC workload goes thru the roof! It's not exactly 'the best service' alluded to above, to come out of the hold and be 20nm or 30nm behind the arrival ahead.
if you guys do so much sequencing is everything left unil last minute
We don't get them until the last minute. The airspace is pretty small. And we don't 'sequence', we 'in-trail-space'. Big difference, and the cause of a lot of the problems mentioned. Also we can't do a lot until we get them down out of the tail wind. They are doing about 600kts over the ground up there, so vectoring and speed control is a waste of time until they are lower.
Why when we put flow on can't you give crews a time to leave Desdi to achieve the required spacing rather than vectoring them
You give us the times, and we'll tell them. Once again, it is APP who should be sequencing. ATM, there is no 'sequence'. It's worked out at the last minute when the a/c call APP. Not exactly pro-active. We can achieve whatever you want. But we have to know what that is.
Once everything enters the holds, it's impossible for us to work out the order as everyone in the centre seems to have a different idea on how a hold works.
It is not impossible to work out, it just isn't done ATM. We just provide a distance, specified by APP. If someone was actually centrally controlling the inbound flow, EVERYONE'S workload would go down. It is true that different guys work the hold differently. eg. I was always taught first in, first out. That isn't necessarily so with others, and their way is no better or worse, it still achieves the
distance between inbounds.
ps. Why isn't the COORD position staffed all night? I'm not sure that you guys realise how thin the staffing is at the ACC.