Originally Posted by
WillowRun 6-3
But ATC Watcher, isn't one of PukinDog's main points that the Luft. captain could have complied with the visual separation task despite the SOP against visual approach?
The SOP specifically forbade the DLH from applying visual separation themselves. Pukindog is emphasising that pilots have to keep an eye out at all times to see and avoid, which is fair enough. This doesn’t override ATC being responsible for providing
separation in Class B though, which is a specific criteria, usually more than just “make sure they don’t hit each other” - which is what you’re otherwise aiming to achieve with the see and avoid responsibility in VMC. See and avoid as a form of separation is what applies in Class G, the whole point of having higher classes of airspace is to provide protection
abovejust see and avoid. If DLH want to ensure they’re given that additional protection at night, so be it.
Originally Posted by
WillowRun 6-3
I wonder, were the inaccuracies of the estimated delay times a reflection of heavy workload, other stressors in the traffic? . . . it does not sound like the changing estimates of delay time were at all deliberate. But the larger point is, doesn't ATC have discretion about whether to "work someone into the existing sequence" or not. (I'm not apologizing for my ignorance of proper terminology, although as SLF/attorney I obviously recognize it indeed is ignorance on my part.)
Some posters were saying “well they should have taken more fuel for the inevitable delay”, again fair enough. However at no point that we know of did the DLH ever get an accurate delay. They were initially given “extended delays”, which apparently meant “at least 40 minutes”. We know they were told 10 minutes after about half an hour, then 14 minutes after that told “another 10-15 minutes”. How much extra fuel do you need to uplift for a 10 minute delay that extends by another 10 minutes every 15 minutes? How are you supposed to quantify that? If you’re not able to provide an accurate time to pilots, how on earth are pilots going to be able to make a definitive plan. A pilot asking for the delay in minutes shouldn’t need to be a conversation, it’s a question followed by an answer.
This isn’t an unpredictable weather scenario where the delay is fluid. If the delay is because you already have traffic sequenced back to SLC and you’re not willing to delay that sequence, then you know it’s going to be more than 10-15 minutes and you have to be honest and accurate. Whatever your stance on the justification for the delay, it doesn’t mesh with what the DLH was being given in terms of delay minutes. There’s obviously no gap in the sequence so why string them along?