Originally Posted by
22/04
It's just chalk and cheese. I have said before the U.S relies on visual approaches and separation but this is rare in Europe, where the radar controller is almost always responsible for separation. Radar CONTROL service in the U.K. The radar controller achieves this in a number of ways - if the runway in use is also being used for departures they will liaise tower to achieve spacing. If not it is usually achieved by speed control - maintain 160 knots between nine and five miles- for example.
In terms of the bigger picture, irregardless of the way it works normally - and obviously most of the time it does work - the fact that ATC are apparently incapable of providing IFR separation between two filed IFR flights in what I believe is Class B is absolutely wild to me.
Originally Posted by Uplinker
Having instead used the F word and cowboy sounding Ha !, and "what is the problem" etc., very quickly put them to the bottom of the ATC priority pile.
It's basic human nature: If you want someone to help you and cooperate with you, don't come heavy handed or swear at them.
Again, this isn’t really how I heard it, nothing he said came across that badly to me. I’m sure the DLH pilot is massively regretting his slight lapse in phraseology, but he’s not swearing
at the controller, he’s not trying to be heavy handed, he’s trying to get across that he knows it’s awkward but an emergency is only going to make it worse for everyone. The guy’s probably watched a few US ATC clips on YouTube and based on what he’s heard as their standard is trying to fit in!
From the FR24 track, from when they first fly overhead KSFO to the point they’re headed towards Oakland, 45 minutes worth of vectors have already elapsed and the controller has straight up refused to give them an updated delay. I’ve no idea what we miss in between (the 10 minute delay given 14 mins before isn’t in the video for example) but it’s hardly surprising the pilot is wanting answers by that point. You can’t just put a plane in the “too difficult” pile indefinitely and hope it goes away.