Sorry this is a long post but I’ve just joined the thread and want to add a few of my humble opinions. It is good to see some sensible dialogue between Area and Approach ATCOs and pilots. Chronologically …
ManaAdaSystem
“Am I alone when I say there are one or two ATCOs (Aussie/English?) in DXB who seem to suffer from constant PMS?”
No unfortunately you’re correct. You’re not alone in finding their conduct on the r/t unprofessional and we are trying to change it.
Captain Over
“We know you are busy fitting out round pegs into the square holes around us, but hold off that transmission for just 15 more seconds. Once the reversers are stowed, you can tell us exactly what to do...'cause THEN we can HEAR YOU!
(or...how about clearing instructions when we first say 'ello?)”
Agreed – this is an ATC training matter but please mention it to the controller at the time it happens. The flip side is for you to get off the runway asap. We have a big problem with runway occupancy, especially EK aircraft. Also “expedite” means hurry up not go as slowly as possible!
Ferris
“Remember, it's arguably worse for us at the centre. We have to talk to them all the time, and put up with their 'interesting' techniques.”
B*$%&cks
CRS
Could one of the Dubai ATCO's tell me why we have to make the extraordinary long call on initial contact (published in Jepps) surely this takes up valuable RT time? The longest verbage required by any airport in the world, to my knowledge.
It’s not long – it’s exactly the same as the report required by UK ATC. It gives us all the info we need and avoids increasing our workload 4–fold by having to ask for the info you haven’t volunteered.
While I am on the questions, why can't DXB's mode c check be satisfactory for UAE and vice versa, …?
Couldn’t agree more and we’ve tried believe me.
A delivery frequency would also take alot of pressure off you Ground controllers.
There is a Delivery frequency on 118.35 between 0730 & 0830. That’s why you get transferred to 118.85 for Ground. The published hours of GMP, of course, mean that GMP closes whilst the GMC controller is still up to his neck in departures and now has to work 2 frequencies. Sometimes there aren’t the staff available to keep it open.
Ferris
“RE; the holds.”
How’s this for an idea? Dubai has control of the holds (which are too far away from the airfield and should be moved closer / replaced) at altitudes i.e. up to 13,000’. UAE drops arrivals spaced 10nm apart to FL150 and transfers them to Dubai Arrivals. If holding is going to be such that levels above FL150 will be required for holding the Coordinator informs UAE North. This simplifies the task for everyone and gives the customer the best service. This would require UAE to descend aircraft earlier. To ensure the system works and entry in the AIP vis aircraft must plan their descent profile to be level FL150 around 20nm before DESDI/BUBIN (and for this to be applied at all times) just like the UK. Maybe a CCTV system so UAE North and East can see the ARR strips to see which levels are vacant is needed too. It’s still not perfect but better than the current system, but then again anything is better than the current system!
Antman
“Would it not make more sense to sequence traffic as much as is possible, one left turn departure ,one strait ahead,one right,one left etc.”
Great idea – already been thought about but again problems of SIDs that go straight ahead to 5 or 9 nm before turning make a mockery of expedition. We have started giving early turns to a fix so that you can maintain your own terrain separation and turn early. These should be prefixed with “when ready, turn L/R direct to…” or “when safely able, turn L/R direct to...” Also ask EK ops to stop filing all their European departures in the rushes solely via RANBI or PAPAR. This means we get 15 deps via one SID and nothing via any other route. There goes the operational flexibility then…
Wiley
“While it will be a great improvement to separate the ADC and Ground frequencies, (as only occasionally seems to happen lately), let’s drag DXB into the 21st century with something that’s been in use elsewhere for ages now – datalink.”
We have separate ADC and Ground frequencies H24. datalink and DATIS – agreed.
“I’d really like to see the LHR system,”
Wouldn’t we all!
Donpizmeov
“Might also help a bit if we were to actually fly the published star instead of the "maintain heading 300"!!!! Would stop a lot of the controller work load, would allow the flight deck (early morning after all night flight from hell) to use the FMC for track miles and descent profile....and hopefully free up the approach freq a bit.”
Sorry, doesn’t work. It is impossible to sequence arrivals on the RNAV STARs without all the hassle of gate times etc. Much more trouble than it’s worth. Then you’ve got the problem of a) training ATCOs to do it (assuming all are able) and b) actually getting people to do it. See scenario under holds above.
”Maybe if the chart reflected 210kts at bubok (oops can not remember its name!!!) and 180kts and 2000' at Umali (is that the right name for 12L ?) only small speed control would be required at busy times. The mile or two saved by the early turn at 0600hrs sometimes is not worth the effort.”
Don’t seem to know the TMA, oops sorry we can’t have a TMA cos Abu Dhabi doesn’t have one (go look up the definition), CTA very well.
… early turns at 0600 – so why do you always say yes when asked if you want one?
AirNoServicesAustralia
“Not stealing Dubai's thunder but generally all the holding, vectoring and speed control is care of us guys in Abu Dhabi. So you can thank/blame us for that.”
Yeah, right. Come for a liaison visit on a night shift then you’ll see.
Muttley Crew
“One gent however has a habit of responding to pilots' readbacks of his instructions with a clipped "Correct..." or sometimes just a double click. Is there a requirement to acknowledge readbacks on UAE Control or departures? Why don’t other controllers do this?”
This might be me. Reason is to reduce the verbal diarrhoea that is a regular feature of radio transmissions here (from both sides). KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
”One other question, when the Altn GND freq is used at Dubai, why isn’t this mentioned on the ATIS so a call and air-time isn’t wasted on 118.35?”
Let me get this right - you want us to make the ATIS message LONGER? We use 118.35 for GMC most of the day. GMP (Delivery) is only used at certain times but is likely to be required much more often in the future. 118.35 remains the initial contact frequency. GMC moves over to 118.85 for simplicity. You still get your clearance on 118.35 so it’s never a wasted call.
You should hopefully have noticed a different way of using the Delivery frequency recently. We’re aiming to keep congestion at the hold to a minimum so try to deliver aircraft to the hold in such a way as to never have more than 3-5 there. This means we’re operating a queue system on GMP (118.35). This is closely based on the way London Gatwick works and is a proven system. My pet hate is queue-jumping crews who get their clearance on 118.35 and then free-call on 118.85. You MUST wait until transferred otherwise the system doesn’t work.
LondonRadar
“If there's such a shortage of ATCOs out there in the UAE, then why is it so hard for some of us guys here in the UK to get a job out there? Seems to me that the best way to reduce the ATCO shortage in the UAE would be to be more flexible with the required experience and treat each applicant on his/her individual merits.”
Ah, now I see why you’re unsuited to life and work here – you’re applying common sense! We aren’t allowed to do that here. Seriously though – have you been given knockback? We’ve recently taken people with less than 5 years and even our first (ex-EGKK) tower only. PM me with details and / or a CV.
AREBEE211
“3 Things that need to be addressed with Dubai ATC.
1. The ATIS. … we have notams.”
So why does everthing come as a surprise then?
“Why do you have to update it every half hour?”
Because things change
“Its a pain in the ass to have to go off ATC frequency in the descent to get the new ATIS code.”
Please, oh please, tell me you mean the co-pilot uses box 2…
”2. Clearance delivery. Time for its own frequency all the time!”
Yes – you get us the staff and we’ll do it.
“There is no reason why we should wait for taxi clearance because someone is getting their clnx. Ground frequency is over congested…”
Agreed
”3. The verbal speal we have to give with departure and arrival. On departure this is a very busy time in the cockpit, low to the ground and we have to spit out aircraft type blah blah. Name, SID and altitude climbing out of.”
I’ll give you aircraft type on departure is usually unnecessary but the rest is the same as Europe and gives us the info we need. If you gave it all on 1st call it would reduce our r/t workload and frustration levels immensely.