Originally Posted by
SteveHobson
I have followed many threads on PPRuNe regarding the friction between flight crew and airline management.
Why is there this seeming lack of trust ? Pilots referring to managers as 'bean counters' and only looking at short term benefits. The pilots stating that fatigue is becoming a major safety issue, really ?
A recent thread compared plane and train unions citing 'safety issues' when really it had nothing to do with safety but just a bargaining chip to try and get the publics sympathy for what is really just wage and benefits negotiation.
I am a retired Master Mariner who served on British flag Very Large Crude Carriers (VLCC's), and then became an ocean freight logistics manager for a fleet of over deep sea 400 vessels.
In all my time at sea we never once used the 'safety' gimmick to try and obtain better conditions.
In fact in all my time at sea we officers never undertook industrial action. Similarly, there were no industrial disputes on our time chartered fleet.
Are airline pilots a superior breed that need to be mollycoddled, and always to be at the throats of their airlines?
Or are the airlines really that bad to work for?
What happened to mutual trust and appreciation ?
I don't know,! Can someone help me understand.?
Swiss Steve
Originally Posted by
SteveHobson
T28B, RARA9, HUNTERBOY, 70 MUSTANG
Thank you for your replies and the valid comments that you make which are appreciated.
However, the issue that I raised was the lack of trust between pilots and managements,
and your comments don't really address that aspect. Aren't many airline managers ex pilots?
Do they change their spots when they go into management!!
And how can mutual trust be earned ? Serious question.
I'm one of those guys sitting the back of the aluminium tube, trusting that the pilots up front
are not stressed. Wasn't the stress of the Captain of Trident 'Papa India' a contributory factor
of the deep stall near Staines , with two inexperienced co-pilots?
I also didn't say safety was a gimmick.
I meant that using safety as a means of achieving contractual bargaining rights could be considered a gimmick.
Being responsible for a vessel's safe navigation is not always easy and plane sailing (.... pun intended !)
Many stressful hours are spent on the bridge when navigating in restricted waters without the help of
a sea pilot. e.g Straits of Malacca, Straits of Singapore, English Channel ( .. cross channel ferries putting an
additional stress as they cross the shipping lanes ) ... and many other restricted waters.
Swiss Steve
Hi Steve
Ships move at what, 20kts max? The slowest an airliner flies is about 140kts, the fastest, up to about 450kts true airspeed. An aircraft can roll inverted in a few seconds if grossly mishandled following an engine failure. Pilots need to be absolutely on top of their game - ready to react correctly at any time of the duty and any time of the day or night.
When I toured a Brittany ferry with my young son, there were four people in the engine room and four people on the bridge, (the Captain was off duty; asleep in his bunk for that crossing).
On almost all flights there are only 2 pilots in the cockpit, occasionally 3. No flight engineers.
If a ship breaks down or loses an engine, it will just drift. This can have its dangers but it will not sink or overturn.
If an aircraft suffers sudden decompression, or loses an engine at 40,000 feet over the ocean it is a
big deal. Unless the aircraft is handled just right, there could be extremely serious consequences. Meanwhile your ship is drifting but still floating. The Captain has been woken up and the engineering team are working to replace the broken engine air valve or fuel valve etc.
Back at 40,000 feet, or actually 30,000 feet now, since an aircraft cannot stay at altitude on one engine, or following a decompression; the two pilots who have been up for 7 hours already, after a stop over of disturbed sleep in the hotel where the cleaners were vacuuming the corridor outside their rooms during the day , and other hotel guests were slamming their doors and talking loudly in the corridor when the pilots and aircrew tried to sleep in readiness for their return duty.
The pilots need to select an alternate airfield to fly towards, the only one available with allowable weather having quite a challenging visual circling approach, surrounded by high ground, which is tricky to do properly even when fully rested and in a simulator in daylight conditions. (they cannot continue to their planned destination on one engine).
Etc, etc. I hope you get the point. Do you see now why pilots get genuinely upset when their own management - some of whom used to be pilots - reduce their Ts & Cs even more and increase their fatigue? And for what reason? To subsidise the passenger's ticket prices by not employing enough crew to allow crews to get sufficient rest and time off. Do you understand why we complain? It most definitely IS all about safety.