Originally Posted by
SLXOwft
WEBF I don't disagree with a lot of what you say but 'A hae ma doots' about the wisdom of all this. IMO the purpose of ASW Frigates (of which we will be losing another one - Montrose - next month ) in a CSG is to extend the detection range; with the probability of long range sub-launched hypersonic missiles in the not too distant future they need the best RW ASW available as part of their weapons fit. With an increasing threat from AUVs, which are likely to be more numerous and harder to detect the ASW screen is going to need to be more comprehensive, 360 degree and extend further out. To me ASW UAVs only make real sense as ''Loyal Pingmen' multiplying the effectiveness of the manned cabs, I am still unaware of ASW UAVs being armed - so as you say the manned cab would have to prosecute in a conflict situation and where does the decision to change to CERTSUB sit with the O arriving on scene (at max chat) or on the controlling ship ? I understand the 814 NAS supports 3 ship's flights and 3 a/c for defence of home waters so Merlins have to be rationed between the FFs. With the OCU 824 NAS having 8 and an average 5 in maintenance, the front-line numbers availilable in the MPH role are IMHO are ridiculously limited. I do feel that the UAV push is weighted to cost and addressing aircrew recruitment, training and retention problems as opposed to increased opertaional effectiveness.
Though originally on QNLZ the three CSG21 Junglies from 845 NAS B flt were operated from Fort Victoria in as you say COD/Taxi Service (MITLE), SAR ('Plane Guard') and CSAR roles.
As a side note on Crowsnest: the plan is/was for all Merlins HM2s to be fitted for but not with (which will include Link 16 at some point) and for 10 kits IOC Q2 2023, FOC in 24/25 and, as far as I know, (Crowsnest) OSD and replacement with ASaC UAV is still c.2030,
Anyway enough incoherent Saturday morning ramblings.
A lot to reply to there! In the old days we used to have two ASW Sea King squadrons for carrier deployment, but these days we only have one carrier designated Merlin squadron, having only upgraded thirty Merlin HM1s. If the two/three Merlins aboard HMS
Prince of Wales had been sent aboard HMS
Queen Elizabeth for CSG21...
820NAS had a lot of aircrew during CSG21 - sixty aircrew for seven cabs.
As you say the ASW UAV is intended to augment the Merlins by dropping sonobuoys at range from the Pinger and acting as a radio relay. It cannot replace capabilities such as dipping sonar, and is not intended to carry weapons.
At the time when we are meant to be growing the Navy losing two frigates seems odd, but things like refit costs and personnel numbers came into play, and the general idea is to get as many ships properly manned and to sea. Although the Type 23 was designed for ASW, both
Montrose and
Monmouth were ones that did not get the update with 2087 sonar and Merlin capability.
ASW went out of fashion during the 'state versus state conflict is a thing of the past' era.