Originally Posted by
pr00ne
All fine and dandy WEBF, but you omit one major flaw. And that is that there are simply not enough aircraft to provide a meaningful capability! You trumpet the Merlin ASW capability, and I am sure that it is indeed world beating, but, and it is a huge but, how many HM2's did 820 NAS deploy onboard the carrier on CSG21? Was it 3? or 4? There are a total of 30 RN Merlin HM2's, and they have to equip the ASW Sonar equipped Type 23 Frigates, deploy to Prestwick on boomer cover, provide the AEW Crowsnest capability on dedicated aircraft, equip 824 NAS training squadron, provide trials aircraft for Boscombe Down RWTS, and on top of this there always seems to be 3 or 4 of them at Leonardo's Yeovil plant. A fine theoretical capability, but deployed in such penny packet numbers as to be basically meaningless.
Originally Posted by
pr00ne
The same applies to the F-35B fleet. CSG21 took 8 aircraft of 617 squadron on the carrier for the deployment (shame that they only managed to bring 7 back...) and that 8 was the entire front line strength of the UK F-35B force, a force that is the only UK dedicated attack force, that theoretically replaced the Sea Harrier, Harrier GR9 and the Tornado GR4 fleets. We learnt from the recent MoD announcements that the situation in 2023 is somewhat improved, they now have 12 F-35B Lightnings and 13 pilots on 617 Squadron. So that is the replacement for the aforementioned fleets with their capability and numbers. Sure things are going to improve, but immeasurably slowly! The 2nd front line F-35B Lightning squadron (809NAS) is due to form around the end of the year, even though they have yet to start the infrastructure build at Marham to house them! Then we learn that the 3rd operational squadron "will form in 2033." 2033! That's ten years after the 2nd squadron.
The carrier capability of the Royal Navy is an illusory fake, it is an intangible nothing with no numbers to make it worthwhile or effective. It is a great shame and could have been oh so different if we had VSO's with an ounce of a spine. And don't pass off the blame to the politicians. We still have one of the largest defence budgets in the world, it is just spent extremely badly.
Have I ever defended the slow build up of the F-35B/Lightning force? No!
Have I ever defended the decision taken a very long time ago to only upgrade thirty out of forty odd Merlin HM1s to HM2 standard? No! I am pretty certain that I expressed a view about it on some PPRuNe thread, but I suppose we were lucky that those who argued to get rid of all ASW capabilities (a thing of the past they said) were not listened to. I seem to remember wondering out loud why all the Type 23s were not refitted with sonar 2087 and Merlin.
820NAS took seven Merlin HM2s aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth for CSG21. Three of these had the Crowsnest fit, but supposedly could be changed back to ASW if needed - 'role fit' and all that jazz.
The squadron has seven helicopters on HMS Queen Elizabeth including four fitted for anti-submarine warfare and three Merlin Mk2s converted through the Crowsnest programme for use in airborne surveillance and control.Commander Varley, who is a qualified helicopter pilot and instructor, added: “The carrier deployment this year is the greatest achievement that 820 squadron has had on its books for the past 10 years. This is the coming together of years of planning and hard work.
"We have the reintroduction of capabilities and new technology in our airframes, in order that we can embark as a complete squadron to support our ships, as the UK reaffirms itself as a global power.
“In terms of the number of people we need to operate those aircraft, we will have approximately 60 aircrew and about 130 engineers and other support staff. That will give us the ability to fly aircraft 24 hours a day with between two and three lines, constantly supporting and protecting the carrier and the strike group.”
As you say, in addition to CSG21, the Merlin force also had to provide frigate flights, cover the SSBNs as they put to sea, put cabs aboard HMS
Prince of Wales for working up, and support training and trials. Assuming we had three aboard
Prince of Wales, then we could assume that ten could be put aboard one carrier.
UK’s newest aircraft carrier prepares for front-line operations- 06 September 21
HMS Prince of Wales sailed on Sunday from Portsmouth for a more concerted spell at sea, during which she will embark four F-35Bs plus Merlin helicopters – the first time a fast-jet and helicopter air group has operated side-by-side from her deck and a “step change in complexity” for training the handlers who marshal the aircraft on the deck and to and from the hangar, the aviation team in Flying Control who direct all flying operations, and the engineering team which maintains the state-of-the-art aircraft.
Elsewhere it was commented that a greater number could have been deployed for a shorter deployment or closer to home. When the Merlin did ASW from the CVS the standard squadron size was six aircraft. I suspect that they could achieve that
and three Crowsnest cabs in the NATO theatre.
In the old days, the
Invincible class carried nine ASW Sea Kings to provide 'Ripple 3' coverage - two aircraft on station and on in transit to/from the carrier. The nine aircraft also kept one on stand by for SAR, and were tasked with VERTREP, HDS, etc. The Merlin has something like 20% greater endurance than the Sea King, and often SAR/VERTREP sorties will frequently be picked up by Jungly Merlin HC4s, so arguably less are needed.
Other points:
1. The Crowsnest role is meant to be moving to some sort of UAS system by the end of the decade, allowing the Merlins to concentrate on ASW etc. I have doubts about the feasibility due to the amount of raw data that would need to be processed without people and/or sent back to the ship in a congested and contested electromagnetic spectrum.
2. One of the reasons for posting that Thales video was to show that we use ASW helicopters differently than in the past, low frequency sonars allow long range detection beyond what older sonars could achieve, and allow for a more effective employment of helicopters. In the old days the ASW cabs spent a lot of time dipping at random - nowadays they would be cued.
3. In a task group (including CSG21) it makes sense to collocate the ASW Merlins on the carrier for reasons of swapping crews, better support and maintenance facilities, better communications and coordination, and a larger more stable deck. Obviously when operating without a carrier, such as the Towed Array Patrol Ship, then Merlin is embarked for ASW.
4. There is a plan to augment the crewed aircraft with uncrewed ones to do things like drop sonobuoys - see
here.
Trials will test the capability of the aircraft to drop “sonobuoys”; small tube-shaped buoys that track and communicate submarine activity enabling the aircraft to alert a crewed helicopter and call for support if a submarine is located. Designed to operate at lower cost than crewed aircraft, capabilities derived from the demonstrator could also reduce the exposure of Royal Navy personnel to hostile threats.
You may remember the era when people thought that state versus state competition and conflict was a thing of the past, things like ASW, air defence, heavy armour, and others were no longer needed...