Originally Posted by
ATC Watcher
ethicalconundrum great argumentation . If I unserstand you correctly y, one guy f..cked up , a hero saved he day , congratulations to the Fedex in the end ( litterally on the frequency) so problem solved . Are you a pilot ? Do you understand how safety procedures are made ?
Hans explained it already
But since you like cheese let's go back to it : first cheese layer the Controller made a (big) error in lining up the SW under LVP when the Fedex was inside the OM . But all the next cheese layers built into the sytem failed and the holes were aligned. SW accepting the clearance,and delayed the take off , Fedex not challenge the initial clearance , and then a few more holes afterwards also were aligned . .
No he did not challenge the line up clerance, he accepted it , Listen to the R/T , he knew he was 3 NM out and got the traffic info on the SW. and continued CAT III. What he questionned later is if he was still clear to land. . A very different question , especially under LVP. Ops.
We build an ATC system that should be resilient to a single failure , but here all partners failed their bit after the first error was made. That is the whole point of this dicussion , we'll maybe know more later if the NTSB does its job correctly, which until recently they were...
I am not looking for assigning blames to individuals , just to understand
why all layers failed. Also the first one.
Is your back ok? I'm really concerned, you are carrying all this water for the controller. You might get a hernia. So, FDX did or did not challenge the landing clearance? I heard it the first time, and I heard it the second time, and I went back and heard it again. Did, or did not challenge landing clearance? Are you saying he should have rejected landing clearance initially? Even with no T/O clearance given to SWA? FDX should have just rejected a landing clearance - for no reason?
Yeah, this definitively has some cheese stench to it. Oh and please take a course in spelling, and grammar. I thought I was done with this ridiculous thread, but no, more evidence of "he's not heavy, he's my brother" every few pages. It gets - old. Anyway, all proceed without me from here. Consider that I have been beaten, that all others here are correct and I'm wrong. Equity(NOT equality) is good and fair, and my statements bear no value and all I contribute here is snark and lies(even though I always source my stuff completely).
Elvis - has left the building.