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Old 2nd Mar 2023, 08:38
  #155 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
There was never any intention to include an aircraft carrier as part of Force Z. Churchill called for one to be based on Singapore but the Admiralty disagreed, and the Admiral in place, Pound, only ever envisaged one being in place by summer 1942, and that in the event of war it would have withdrawn to Ceylon.
IF a carrier had been with Force Z then the only difference in the outcome would have been the loss of a carrier as well as the other 2 capital ships.
12 Swordfish and a similar number of Fulmars would have made no difference.
The Japanese proved quite adept at sinking RN aircraft carriers, and they would have done similar to one included in Force Z, had one been planned, which it wasn’t.
Yes that is what I thought however.... I had cause to post this on a thread about the Fleet Air Arm in 1939-1945:

I was watching Forces TV the other night and it had a series called History's Greatest Blunders, and this particular episode was the about the loss of Force Z (HM Ships Repulse and Prince of Wales) to Japanese air attack in December 1941. They had been a carrier (Indomitable) that was meant to be part of Force Z but she ran aground in the Caribbean and needed repairs. The commander of Force Z, Vice Admiral Sir Tom Phillips, got the blame for going to sea with little air cover when amphibious landings were taking place on the Malay peninsula.

Was it really fair to blame him for trying to fight the Japanese? Moreover, even if Indomitable had been with Force Z, would she have carriers enough fighters of sufficient capability to defeat Japanese aircraft flying from Thai airfields? The Operation Pedestal escort, for instance, included no less than four carriers, whose fighters were busy.
Which got a couple of responses, including:

The Japanese air strike was launched at a range of 600nm and did not include any fighter escort. Orbat here. Japanese torpedo bombers were lightly constructed and lacked armour and self sealing tanks. The G4M Torpedo bomber was given the Allied reporting name of Betty. The Japanese nickname was the Cigar: US pilots called it the flying Zippo.

Force Z was in coastal waters and air cover could have been provided and was offered. Even a handful of F2A Brewster Buffalos would have shot down inflammable G4Ms trying to attempt a torpedo attack flying a steady course at 150 kts and 100ft altitude.


[i]Phillips did not believe that the RAF and other Allied air forces could guarantee air cover for his ships,[citation needed] as they had only limited numbers of fighters.[[i]citation needed] However, one squadron, No. 453 Squadron RAAF with 10 Brewster F2A Buffalos at RAF Sembawang, had been designated "Fleet Defence Squadron", to provide close cover for Force Z.[23] The squadron's acting CO, Flight Lieutenant Tim Vigors, had been advised of the radio procedures that would used by Force Z.[24]

Despite his misgivings about the air cover available, Phillips elected to proceed. It is believed that four factors entered into his decision: he thought that Japanese planes could not operate so far from land, he believed that his ships were relatively immune from fatal damage via air attack, he was unaware of the quality of Japanese aircraft and torpedoes,[23] and like many Royal Navy officers, Phillips underestimated the fighting abilities of the Japanese...

...No. 453 Squadron RAAF, which was to provide air cover for Force Z, was not kept informed of the ships' position. No radio request for air cover was sent until one was sent by the commander of Repulse an hour after the Japanese attack began. Flight Lieutenant Vigors proposed a plan to keep six aircraft over Force Z during daylight, but this was declined by Phillips. After the war, Vigors remained bitter towards him for his failure to call for air support on time.[24] He later commented, "I reckon this must have been the last battle in which the Navy reckoned they could get along without the RAF. A pretty damned costly way of learning. Phillips had known that he was being shadowed the night before, and also at dawn that day. He did not call for air support. He was attacked and still did not call for help."[29] Daytime air cover off the coast was also offered by Wing Commander Wilfred Clouston of No. 488 Squadron RNZAF, but his plan, "Operation Mobile", was also rejected.[30]wikipedia

Had Phillips accepted the RAF offer the course of the war might have been a little different. Even just six defending fighters might have cut down a dozen or more bombers and spoiled the aim of enough of the bombers to save the captial ships.
At the very least the defence of Malaya would have kicked of on a higher note.
Perhaps not as black and white as I had thought.

Later in the war RN carriers did take the war to Japan. Meanwhile, in late 1941 the first of the escort carriers, HMS Audacity, was proving her worth on convoys to Gibraltar, and a few months later the first Sea Hurricanes went to sea aboard HMS Avenger for Arctic Convoy PQ18 - both splashed a number of German aircraft.
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