Originally Posted by
ATC Watcher
how in the US you garantee /know that the safe area is in place but also that all the other LVO measures are in place to perform a safe CAT II or III ?
Hello, A.W.
I wanted to assure you on a systematic level, not only phraseologies, you are not alone with the "safe coincidence" evaluation. Having said that, as another attempt at mediating, let's clearly support
Chiefttp's "it was not luck but the prowess of FDX crew who avoided a disastrous outcome" as in "not divine providence, instead the hard-earned aviator skills of being ahead of 2 aeroplanes and a misfunctioning ATCO".
Now that the red-flag luck word is not to be used, I think he will understand the picture we are seeing. That after the line-up clearance, it was all toss of dice. One of the dice (what's the plural here?) was heavily loaded with ability and that is why it all remained in the incident category. The system shall have better defences than a crew going around because of traffic they cannot see (known unknown).
But what are those defences
after a rouge line-up clearance that WE have, with all the declaratory LVPs in place and LVO announced on the airport's Instagram feed? If anyone says there would not be any such line-up clearance under LVO because LVPs specifically prohibit that == exactly what
Chiefttp has been drumming about for 5 or so pages.
We have a box for everything.
(time 1:09).
My first reaction was exactly feeling the same pinch 'wtf you self-declare CAT III??'. Having listened to what's been explained multiple times, that was just the LVO box missing in my understanding.
While the US don't have that box they still have the tools from it (protection areas, separation standards) and by all known means the ATCO failed to use them in this instance. Him not using the tools is not because of the missing box (*).
See, in Europe possibly other places if the vis drops to 600 mtrs and the Airport+ATC
cannot launch the LVP's for whatever reason (mx on the no-break power source, staffing, ....) the airport will be announced closed or explicitly restricted. Same as in the US. So when they are open and running in less than 1/2, the LVPs are understood to be in force. Minding the language here, not
assumed to be but actually in force.
Funny, I am puzzled why they would go on and announce the A-SMGCS operation in the US. It's a tool the airport + ATC use to work under LVO and I don't need to be told. Through superfluous knowledge, I know it makes a hell lot of difference on the ground, but as a crew I must report RWY vacated anyway and they tell me where to go. Finding my way to the gate is the same hard work either way on the cockpit end.
Perfect point by the way, why better alignment of opinions is hopefully soon to arrive: Where I see no need to be told SMGCS is the play of the day, they don't understand why we keep insisting LVO must be announced. For exactly the same reason.
1) The box is not the same as the tools.
2) Boxes keep the tools aligned.
Shall we agree to agree on both statements, across the pond?
(*) = or is it, is it?