BD sez:
Well lets see.
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Yes, BD, let's see where you take us THIS time...Wheeee!
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BD sez:
"Chowdry's BBJ was a lease, and a mighty good one at that. In fact Boeing just about GAVE him the thing. The Albatross was bought with his own money."
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Again, what cites do you have? Perhaps Boeing did give him a good deal on the 'lease' in exchange for leasing so many whales and thus fattening the -400F orderbook.
Regardless, the BBJ was an utterly needless expense that I feel only made him appear to be an extravagant spendthrift in the eyes of his more practical ACMI customers, and I would wager more than a few of the saner Wall Street types as well.
Would you not have put 2 and 2 together as one of AAWH's ACMI customers and thought, 'Hey, if Chowdry can buy all these toys and make all this Wall Street money with our ACMI bux, maybe we could REALLY make some money at this game buying our OWN freighters, WITHOUT paying a middleman! And that's exactly what China Airlines, among others, DID. Of course, one must also remember that there was a rather severe downturn in the international economy then... a COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUE from the BARGAIN price AAWH paid for Polar- about the SAME as what his 2 flying toys were worth, as I will demonstrate shortly.
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BD sez:
"In any case the 600 mil that Atlas had in the bank was after Chowdry passed away but before Atlas bought Polar. The proof that Polar is AAWH downfall is obvious to anyone who can read and understand an 8k or 10k report."
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Put your money where your mouth is, BD, and POST said "8k and 10k" reports, and SHOW us, using those reports, that the purchase and operation of Polar by AAWH is the MAIN cause of its financial difficulties, as you continue to imply. Are you going to do it? Didn't think so, because it's NOT TRUE. And you know it.
It has been shown time and again, from the marketing and management geniuses at AAWHs' total inability to generate believeable financial statements for Wall Street that *anything* they put out for said street nowadays must be taken with a VERY large grain of salt.
The "$600 mil" you continue to prattle about was likely spent on the massive AAWH aircraft lease payments that are a hallmark of Atlas', and many other airlines', operations. It was pissed away plenty quick when the ACMI biz went to pot.
Your assertions that much of the '$600mil' was 'blown' on Polar's purchase are a crock, as Polar's purchase price was hardly in the neighborhood. Here's a little aritcle that might educate you as to the bargain price AAWH paid for Polar:
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m.../article.jhtml
To make it easier for you:
Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings Completes Acquisition of Polar Air Cargo.
Business Wire, Nov 2, 2001
"""Under the terms of the agreement announced in July, the stated purchase price of $84 million was effectively reduced by $30 million through certain financing commitments as well as the restructuring of associated aircraft leases. In addition, approximately half of the purchase price has now been financed through a two-year term loan. The transaction was completed following receipt of exemption authority for such purchase from the U.S. Department of Transportation."""
Well well. We see that not only was the price paid for Polar considerably LESS than even the original bargain of $84mil, but in reality, AAWH financed HALF the $54mil. final purchase price of Polar through a LOAN! So, AAWH got Polar's many valuable routes, and some serviceable-100 series freighters (which Connie and others that BOUGHT some will tell you still fly perfectly well) for around $27 million in CASH- about 5% of the $600mil 'Pile' you think was 'wasted' on Polar's acquisition and operation-and the rest a low-interest loan. So this, like your other contentions, is WRONG and not supported by FACTS.
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BD sez:
"AAWH is going down the tubes and has been since they bought Polar. GEE I wonder what can be causing it. Atlas lost a few ACMI contracts and gained a few. Atlas has a few more airplanes and have dry leased some. Nothing in the mix could be causing the hemorrage except Polar. Polar is the ONLY thing in their current business model that could possibly be the big money loser."
"Once they bought Polar they comitted to the business model and to the scheduled routes. I agree that Atlas management is no great brain trust but they would be a whole lot better off financially if the Polar section wasn't dragging them down. How can Polar pilots say they are supporting Atlas when Atlas is going broke at such a rapid clip? What kind of support is that?"
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Well GEE, BD, it's fairly obvious to even the most disinterested observer that without Polar dry-leasing FOUR of Atlas' planes (a -200, 2-300s, and a 400f) I think they'd be going down the tubes a LOT faster than they are now! Want N numbers? I'll give 'em to ya. N505MC (200) N354MC, N355MC (300) and N496MC (400F). All DRY LEASED to Polar for what I'm sure is CONSIDERABLY above market rates.
And again, you have FAILED to show how it can be that Polar is 'dragging' Atlas down despite the FACT that AAWH/Atlas WET-LEASES multiple 200, 300 and 400 freighters, to POLAR in EVERY ONE of POLAR'S markets...again, the majority of which we ALREADY HAD before the marketing and management geniuses at AAWH took over.
However, no Polar pilot that I know, including myself, considers themselves to be 'supporting' Atlas- any more that those at Atlas with any brains think they're supporting Polar. Nor do we resent the Atlas crews for the multiple violations of our Scope clause that are being racked up by AAWH against Polar on a daily basis; I'm sure they'd give us the same courtesy should the tables be turned- this goat-rope was handed us by mgt., not them. But I'll be damned if our outfit is what's dragging AAWH into the gutter- and you sure haven't, and CAN'T, prove otherwise.
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BD sez:
"BTW B74flyer, since I have invested in CGO in the past and since I invest in a number of airlines that operate out of my city, I listen in on the company and AIRINC freqs to get a hows-it-going feel for my investments. Polar has left the International Airport (not the AFB) a few times in the last 2 months headed west with "Zero-Cargo." "
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Time for yet ANOTHER reality check, BD! Yes, flights do leave JFK empty. They go empty when headed to various military bases to pick up MAC charters, or other destinations such as Seattle where maxed-out loads of horses are picked up to be flown to Japan for 'Kobe Steaks'. We do a LOT of these sorts of trips, as does Atlas. So, as I've said, your observations mean NOTHING as to the financial health of either Polar or AAWH. Nada. ZIP.
Do rejoin the thread when you have something useful to contribute!
TT.