Future Carrier (Including Costs)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

"Ocean was in service until Queen Elizabeth was in commission "

WEBF - you spent years telling us that Ocean wasn't a replacement for a proper carrier.

The main threat that Russia could post in the Atlantic is from submarines, with aircraft launched anti ship missiles also being something to worry about. The carrier provides the means to defend against both

Its also a major target of both - we have to divert and SSN and T45 to protect the carrier - and we don't have enough of either TBH

Where to start? Yes Ocean was not a carrier, but at times she was used for carrier like roles.

HMS Ocean leads international submarine hunting exercise - 20 July 2016

The seven helicopters from 814 Naval Air Squadron (NAS), 849 NAS and 815 NAS which fly the Merlin, Sea King and Lynx helicopters respectively, were vital assets in enhancing the ability to search for deep sea threats.

Captain Steve Moorhouse, the commanding officer of HMS Ocean and the commander of the task group for Exercise Deep Blue II, said, “I am delighted to have taken command of this multinational anti-submarine warfare exercise and am particularly pleased to have a Royal Navy tailored air group of seven aircraft embarked from Culdrose and Yeovilton.

“The work the US, French and UK are undertaking on this exercise will play a key role in the development of skills and procedures we will need when operating our new aircraft carriers as part of a maritime task group.”

RN leads US Task Force 50 for first time - 26 Nov 2016

The Royal Navy has taken command of US Task Force 50 in the Gulf – the first time it has led a US task force in the Middle East.

Commodore Andrew Burns, the Royal Navy’s Commander Amphibious Task Group, has taken charge of the US task force while currently embarked on HMS Ocean.

It represents a significant development in combined maritime operations between the UK and US.

Commodore Burns and his staff will now direct the operations of the multi-national task force from on board Ocean, maintaining the free flow of trade, freedom of navigation for shipping and regional security in an area covering around 2.5m square miles.

Navy's eyes in the sky look to to the future on board HMS Ocean - 10 Jan 17

Bagger squadron 849 NAS is rotating its three flights – Normandy, Okinawa and Palembang – through the Gulf, taking advantage of RN and RFA vessels operating in the region to get their sea legs back.

With the arrival of Ocean, however, the flights – currently Palembang – can considerably expand the training (benefiting them and the future RN) thanks to Merlin helicopters embarked to protect Ocean’s group from surface and, especially, submarine threats.

The result is that aircrew and task group staff can test the ability of the two different helicopter types to work together to help protect the task force from threats coming from every dimension.

As for your other point, do you think that things like amphibious forces or logistics shipping might need defending? If so, then why not optimise the ASW helicopters by collocating them, and use aircraft to intercept hostile aircraft beyond the range of shipborne missile systems?

Originally Posted by Asturias56

This is the RN's view of what the T45's typically do

Daring has had a busy life since commissioning in 2009, circumnavigating the globe from May 2013 to February 2014. She has conducted radar trials in the Pacific Ocean, provided relief the stricken islands of the Philippines following typhoon Haiyan, and put her sophisticated radar and missile systems to excellent use protecting US aircraft carriers as they strike at terrorists in Iraq and Syria.Daring returned to Portsmouth in May 2017. During her time away, she visited 12 countries, steamed 50,000 miles and taken part in 20 patrols of the Bab-al-Mandeb strait to reassure merchant vessels and keep the sea lanes open for trade.

I'm sure WEBF's posts will fill in the any gaps -

So protecting and supporting a carrier is part of the Type 45's role then? They often played a part in directing aircraft as well. On which note:

Royal Navy destroyer operates with Greek navy and US supercarrier as Med mission ramps up - 3 Nov 22

Lieutenant David Bowen, Fighter Controller on Defender directed American jets from the US Navy’s tenth and final Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George HW Bush during the exercises.

“Working with the USS George HW Bush was a brilliant opportunity to prove our interoperability as partner nations and allowed us to develop relationships during the planning process,” he said.

“During the execution of the sortie I was nervous until the aircraft checked in, at this point I had to deliver the best service that I could to them, Fighter Controller training in RNAS Yeovilton and MWS Collingwood provided me with all the skills to do the job I have trained to do over the last eight months.

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As one of the world's most powerful warships, Defender tested her air defence capability during an exercise with F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets from the George HW Bush.

Defender controlled some of the F/A-18s during the exercise with her Fighter Controllers, demonstrating the ability to work seamlessly with a close NATO ally.

Going back to ASW for a moment, earlier this year HMS Prince of Wales was in the Arctic conducting ASW with her embarked Merlins, the frigate HMS Richmond (with either a Merlin or a Wildcat embarked) and at times an RAF P-8 and possibly an SSN. As far as I know three Merlins were aboard Prince of Wales. Is she had not been there, then you would have needed three frigates for them. As far as I know not every frigate is Merlin capable, only the ones that got 2087 sonar. The carrier will be able to operate them in worse weather conditions than a frigate, due to hull and deck size.

As N_a_b and others have tried to point out:

The carrier enhances the effectiveness of the ASW frigate by providing multiple ASW helicopters for constant operation, in conjunction with towed array sonar and other platforms and systems. The fixed wing aircraft aboard the carrier can also deal with any aircraft providing reconnaissance for hostile submarines or long range targeting for long range missiles.

The carrier enhances the effectiveness of the AAW destroyer by providing the means for aircraft to be intercepted and visually identify aircraft and if necessary engage them far beyond the range of the destroyer's missiles - kill the archer not the arrows. This is important in preventing shipborne AAW systems from being saturated.

The carrier enhances the effectiveness of the SSN (or SSK from a partner navy) by coordinating the activities of all the submarines attached to the task/strike group, including coordinating their activities with those of other ASW platforms and providing deconfliction.