Originally Posted by
mahogany bob
FDR
The justification to not support Ukraine in the no fly area was morally bankrupt at that time, and was shown to be absolute nonsense.
HMMM ?
I flew in 4 NFZs - Kosova,GW1,GW2 and Afghanistan - and saw the enormous effort involved. Air superiority was achieved relatively easily against a relatively weak enemy.
Taking on Russia however would have been a totally different ball game ! Airfields and radar units inside Russia would have to have been attacked and suppressed risking major escalation into all out war!
Did we really want to risk that?
The ROE in Viet Nam was nearly impossible for the troops in the field or air, however, what Russia was likely to do and what they eventually have done was understood. The Ukrainians still need air support, whether materiel only or by assistance in the theatre. The Ukrainians have shown that attacking the Russians at their own bases where they are specifically striking military targets had not been escalatory. Russia has used up their conventional forces to an extent and now risks having inadequate force to retain a daily more assertive set of vassal states. Putin will go where he pleases, but we have bent over backward to not offend him in the early days of this, with an unstated expectation that he would defeat Ukraine readily, and yet, Ukraine shattered his army, damaged his navy, and the airforce beat their feet to get out of a lethal area. I have no desire to see our crews harmed in this action, but they would make a difference, and the risk is already baked into this cake of Vlad's recipe. Ukraine needs all the anti air capability that can be provided, and if someone is shooting over the fence, their action is still criminal and under the UN Charter an ROE that gives defence for their own land or defence provided by collective groups is not only legal, it is the intent of the Charter.
Russia is not likely to attack NATO any time soon, unless they can conscript a bunch of Girl Guides, and then they would have to bring their own cookies, slingshots uniform, and drive their own Lada's. They would be doing it for love of Putin, as the meagre salary for the troops stopped being paid some time back. It there are F-35's and F-22s on site, is there a risk of engaging RuAF aircraft? Sure, that is the intent; If Russia wants to attack a sovereign country, that is what we presume our response will be. Being worried over what Putin will do next merely emboldens him and the next guys that emulate him, the Putin wannabes.
If we are concerned that our own troops involvement is a bridge too far, then how about getting the same gear on loan to the Ukrainians and those crew that are prepared to go do an eagle squadron for the closest thing to a just cause we have seen in the last 75 years.