PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - What happens if the bad guys win this time?
Old 12th Jun 2022, 10:00
  #17 (permalink)  
dr dre
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,738
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I would define Good by the freedoms to live, think and write as you wish, providing that your freedoms do not deny those of others. Those freedoms do not exist in China, and you can only live as the government requires.
Well not really just China. You'll find in all western countries, including the US, there are restrictions on how you live, think and write. Censorship laws, defamation laws, hate speech, intellectual property laws amongst others restrict freedom of speech. Everything from basic laws, traffic codes, advertising standards, local housing regulations, "victimless" crime statutes, public decency codes, protest restrictions, you name it there's plenty of regulations that restrict freedoms in Western countries. My experience of China is that whilst open public dissent against the government is not tolerant generally the government isn't too concerned with dictating every single action of most normal law abiding citizens (whilst currently they are still quite heavy handed on Covid restrictions this will ease in the future). It was surely easier to buy and consume alcohol on the streets in China compared to the US.

What you talk of there are "negative rights". Freedoms of speech, religion, association, privacy etc. Freedom from government intervention.

But there are also "positive rights". Rights to suitable housing, healthcare, education, social welfare, employment, safe infrastructure, internet access. Freedom to live your life at a minimum standard with government intervention.

Now Western countries have negative and positive freedoms in varying degrees, but the most notable Western country, and China's counter, the USA, has notably lower levels of positive freedoms. Only western country without universal healthcare, high levels of homelessness, higher education costs prohibitive for a large proportion of the country.

Now if China's living standards were truly bad enough to flee, then why did 150 million Chinese citizens leave China in 2019 for tourism purposes and not claim asylum or refugee status in the nations supposedly superior nations they "fled" to?

There are other countries and religious groups that impose some of this Badness, but none as ruthlessly and on the same scale as China which seeks to spread its ideology to wider areas.
Does China wish to spread it's way of government on wider areas? Here's some comments from notable former Greek politician Yanis Varoufakis on his experience on China's influence buying vs America and the West:

I haven't seen China try to start a communist revolution in a single country post Cold War, even though they surely have had the means to. As Yanis states they have been non interventionist in a way the West can't really fathom. And this is what we really are talking about, the influence of the great powers on the rest of the world. No secret the US has no trouble with intervening in countries that aren't playing ball via use of hard power intervention, sanctions, bombing, invading or coups. China is intervening via "debt traps" (not dissimilar to what the IMF did anyway) but primarily soft power intervention like building infrastructure that most 3rd world nations are finding a lot more tolerable.
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