Originally Posted by
gums
Salute!
Thank you, ORAC. You nailed it about mission and scenario. The plane would have been outstanding in 'nam until the A-7D came along as long as it didn't go up north or even patrol the Trail after 1968 or so. Would not have needed that huge gun, either.
Way back in 1973-74 we combat SLUF and HUN veterans tried to convince USAF to limit the A-10 buy due to survivability and lack of avionics that the A-7D already had (and used in actual combat in the CAS and interdiction roles and even a bunch of missions "downtown" in broad daylight). Only mission we had less stellar performance than the "piston powered and slower version" of the A-10 did was CSAR. We had problems with turn radius in low weather among valleys and mountains that the A-1 was simply better due to geometry and physics. Could get to and find the survivor way faster than the A-1. But had trouble escorting Jolly in poor weather, low clouds in the valleys, etc. Initially, we thot the Hawg would have something at least as good as what the SLUF had for navigation and weapon delivery, maybe just half as good, but better than the A-1 or A-37 or F-100 or even the F-4.
But nooooooo....! USAF sold it to Congress asserting it could drop a dumb bomb down the pickle barrel with no fancy avionics, could kill a tank from over a half a mile away with the huge gun and a fixed pipper for aiming, and didn't need no steenking inertial or doppler system or a projected map for navigation, or even a decent HUD. It didn't even have a crude autopilot to help the pilot while he was using his paper map and sextant for navigation!
As you can tell, I am not a big fan of keeping the Hawg around except for COIN against bad guys with a fairly low air defense capability. The cost per plane for maintenance, part replacement, and so forth will grow and grow. The political environment and potential employment scenarios have changed for CAS a lot in the last 30 years, and frankly, only CAS missions I see for the U.S. is defending its embassies. Let the other guy defend his own forces and towns and..... and maybe the big aerospace folks will build, market and sell something to help. The days of dropping nape on the fences is ovr, and has been for a long time.
Gums opines...
At this moment in time:
- Doesn't the hog find it's niche wide open to go truffle hunting'?
- What was an oversell on simplicity in the 70's, is that not now exactly what helps UF man up a platform that is simple and has a fair measure of survivability?
- Isn't lend-lease of hogs not a great way to remove them from the USAF inventory as they sure do seem to suffer from an orphan syndrome, and they have never been offered to the guys who would love them, the marines... ?
What is the ramp up time to get drivers that used to fly MiG 29s and Su-25's to go add some noise and confusion on the MSR? The UF were running choppers into the most contested spot of the war, they did lose 2 to ground fire, but they had a specific location to go to over a lot of "infected" territory (Putin being a plague on Ukraine). Going from US to UK shotgun planned cockpits is interesting, and Soviet adds some more weirdnesses, the ADI being a bit of an oddity, but otherwise, they are more logical than 50's or 60's British stuff. Going from Soviet analogue to US is mainly a pleasure. These guys are committed and driven to save their homeland from a brutal regime, there are spare A-10s out at D-M, and on poles all over, the blue suiters have wanted to see the fleet removed and replaced by shiny rides, so why wouldn't a couple of sqns worth of the hog be a good option? There is no need for US boots on the ground, just give the UF a means to go inoculate forces within the borders of Ukraine. Personally, I think they would survive quite well when operated down in the weeds, and if not, then they make the case for the blue suiters to save money by mothballing them as an ineffective fleet. I remain a fan of the hog, and suspect that the RF as they exist are not able to place an Fulda Gap scenario of airspace denial in effect anytime soon, (they would need the assistance of Ukraine to get their gear in shape, and that is not a likely scenario).
Better unmanned CAS, LO, etc... but that isn't on todays menu.
Swapping between soviet and western AI's is annoying, but not impossible, they are intuitive in their own way but it does take some thinking when stuff goes weird.