Originally Posted by
sandiego89
Thanks so much for the replay and schematics. I have always been fascinated about jets operating from the smallish Colossus/Majestic classes. While there were numerous variables, including cat length and performance (some cats received modification, some were more tired than others) , ship speed (and reliability and power by some of the ships), take off, stall and landing speed, launch weight, etc, what do you think was the dodgiest regular jet use aboard these ships? Some candidates, and others?:
A-4 on the Melbourne- short cat. Shortest cat?
A-4 on the 25 De Mayo- longer cat, but perhaps not as well maintained/performing cat, ship speed/boilers tired. Lack of ship speed/wind cited during the Falklands.
Super Entendard on the 25 Mayo, post Falklands the SuE conducted occasional operations. Cat was overhauled, but ship/boilers were still tired. SuE usually heavier than the A-4?
Banshee on the Bonaventure. Believe the Bonaventure had upgrades for larger/heavier aircraft, but the Banshee was heavy and underpowered.
A-4 on Menas Gerias. Ship got a pretty massive upgrade in the 60's, but not sure it was equivalent to the Majestics?
Sea Hawk and Sea Venom likely more straightforward?
I'm mightily pissed when a long reply seemed to LOCK UP this computer completely before 'submit reply'. Meanwhile this is the VF-805 LSO gouge on the back of his LSO logbook.
I'll attempt to recreate earlier lost reply. The answers to some of the questions may be vaguely answered in the 4.4Gb MEGA PDF here:
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/our-history/spazsinbad-a4g/ Please follow download/view directions on that page. My only experience flying the Sea Venom was ashore without an Observer in the right hand seat calling the airspeed in one knot increments during the approach. Visibility over the bulbous nose was atrocious, meaning tight circuits. At the carrier their circuit height was 400 feet with I guess a short straightaway and without an LSO it was ??? Initially in the A4G we followed same height with a level base turn picking up the ball in the mirror about half way around base turn. However our USN trained LSOs managed to convince the greybeards to use NATOPS height of 600 feet, about half way in the first part of our cruise late 1971. It was difficult for me as a newbie to adjust to a descending base turn during the cruise. Hook to ramp clearance in NATOPS minimum is 6.5 feet whereas aboard MELBOURNE it was 6 feet. Generally there were no problems operating at sea with carrier movement except the carrier could wallow a bit. The earlier video shows effect of big swell high wind inside Jervis Bay (near NAS Nowra). The effect at sea outside the bay was worse. My first and only view of a Sea Venom carrier landing from goofers/vultures row was inside JB in similar weather back in mid 1966. The Venom arrested with flight ops called off thereafter.
AFAIK the Super Etendard was only TESTED to be found unsuitable.
Forgot some of the many questions... The catapult when working handled the load for sure, however two A4Gs were lost to bad catshots. Cause unknown for the first one with the pilot going into the sea etc. The second & VERY LAST A4G catshot (pilot ejected OK) was caused by cat crew not doing all required checks properly in their haste. One A4G lost to wire break (bad juju under deck) with pilot ejecting OK. There were a few close calls on arrest (details in the MEGA PDF). My only experience is MELBOURNE with my first roller/touch and go deck landings aboard HMS Eagle visiting our east coast Aug 1971. As a sprog/newbie/nugget I had no other DL experience then to allow me to arrest/catapult from EAGLE, unlike other VF-805ers. I recall the deck felt EXTREMELY bumpy (not just arrestor gear) and that carrier looked small (the first time I had seen one from the air) then I got to MELBOURNE.
MELBOURNE could trundle to 20 knots but the shipboard experience was something to behold - she rarely needed to go that fast thank goodness. As you can see from the LSO gouge there are limits to WOD for weight however I never experienced any issues at max carrier landing weight of 14.5K lbs.
