Originally Posted by
aerobat77
Even never systems appear to shine only on the paper . Lets take the fancy s-400 air defense system . In theory superior to patriot , in practise in syria or armenia turkish drones and missiles were able to perform their mission nevertheless .
Russia never showed off military strenght big scale since ww2 , in fact they even struggled to force out few thousand rebels out of aleppo in syria , the same in chehen war .
Totally disagree here.
First of all comparing Russian Forces today to what they were in the 90's and early 2000's is a comparison on it's own. Restructuring and rearming started I believe in 2009. Even comparing salaries pentions and benefits then and now show night and day. In the 90's pathrtic salaries (forget about pensions) weren't paid for months. Yes, salaries aren't close to UK level, but not far by purchasing power comparison.
As for Syria, this operation actually shows in my opinion a major success. In 4 years the bad guys (except for sleeper cells) have been eliminated in Syria. This is something the US hasn't managed to do in Iraq and Afghanistan using greater numbers, much more financing and much heavier involvement.
Don't forget that Russian Forces only provided intel gathering, air support, logistics and special forces on the ground. In addition to this the allies are Syrians, who no offence, aren't most disciplined warriors out there.
As for your Armenian comparison, Russian Forces weren't involved in the conflict of Armenia vs. Azerbaijan+Turkey in Karabakh so no clue why you used this scenario at all. Armenian president Sargisyan pissed off Russia to the point that when the conflict started he was on his own. Under the ODKB treaty of mutual assistance Russia denied his request for assistance because the fighting took place in Karabakh, which even Armenia recognised as Azerbaijani territory. Azeris and Turks were careful not to cross or shoot across the border into Armenia. The conflict pretty much ended when Azerbaijan accidentally took out a Russian Mi-24 that was escorting a Russian convoy, promptly apologized, paid out hefty compensation. Putin said "enough", and that same day a ceasefire was signed.
Armenia doesn't have any S-400's, only S-300's which they didn't even use in the conflict. And even using Soviet-era Air defense systems they took out 15 or something Bayraktars. If they had Pantsirs (preferably latest version with post-Syrian upgrades) and used not as stand-alone units but as they are supposed to be - in complex with long range systems and proper detection radars, they could have denied Azerbaijan air superiority.
The Pantsir has proven itself pretty capable in taking out UAV's.