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Old 4th Jul 2020, 06:03
  #1578 (permalink)  
FlightDetent

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
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Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd
Possibly have run off the far end, which would have displaced a few atoms, but likely no deaths.
Let's not forget the brakes are oversize, designed to stop a rejected TKOF from somewhere well past the runway half-point.

Karachi landing distance available is 3400 m. Performance data show only 1950 m is required at approach speed + 50 knots (QRH numbers).

Originally Posted by Check Airman
Assuming they recognised it at 500ft (which is the last data point we have), from 220kt, I'm also in the camp that they'd wind up going off the far end of the runway.
Back of the fag packet: 220 IAS = (nearly) 220 G/S = 1100 fpm = (nearly) 30 seconds to touchdown from 500 ft. The deceleration rate with landing flap and L/G down is at least 20 kt / 10 sec (yellow speed-trend arrow), ie. reduction from 220 to 160 is possible.

Assuming the original Vapp at 140 kt, 160 is Vapp+20. QRH strikes again: for Vapp+25 LDA is 1500 m. No one would have known, they had double the length required. And the touchdown was well done distnace-wise, given the lack of gear-legs.

In your scenario, there would be a delay before the gear unfolds and comes down, which I conveniently omitted. Still some room to spare, AFAIK.
o my defence, AviatorAtHeart did ask about the effect of L/G down from where they flicked the lever, at 1700 ft / 5 NM.

Come to think of it, with 220 at 5NM and everything hanging down as it should, the approach might have been stable by 500. (Vapp+15 max). Somebody mentioned going 250 to the marker for skills development, didn't they?


AviatorAtHeart: Google for Normalization of deviance, someone mentioned already in the thread. It's a common organizational trait, everyone is susceptible. It is that natural and so dangerous, the industry mandated a computerized monitoring of flight parameters long time ago. Called FDM, it is the cornerstone of FOQA / SMS. Without SMS in place the legal requirements to run an airline, or even a small 2 aircraft operation are not satisfied. EASA just banned PIA from EU airspace, citing lack of SMS and their inability to rectify the situation for extended periods of time, in spite of the warnings the've been given.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 4th Jul 2020 at 06:17.
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