PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - PA-28-181 Vno below Vc minimum design speed?
Old 20th May 2020, 21:20
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AC103
 
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This is still bugging me.

The Dakota also has a Vno less than Vc min design limitations.
MAUW=3000
Wing Area=170sqft
Wing Loading=17.65lbs/sqft
Vc design minimum = 38 √17.65 = 159.63 MPH EAS ≈ 138.72 KEAS
Published Vno = 135 KCAS


It seems a number of the heavier Cherokees appear to have lower than legal Vnos. The Warrior III for eg.

Piper PA-28-161 Warrior III (2440lbs With installation of Piper Kit 88050 STC#: SA00397NY/170sqft)
Vc min = 125 KEAS
Vno = 122 KCAS


With out the paper MAUW increase of the post 1983 Warrior III models Vc min = 122 KEAS ie. spot on.

Has Piper done some sort of deal with the FAA here to allow increases in gross weight for the Cherokees without complying with the Vno requirements?

For reference here are some other CAR 3 / FAR Part 23 aircraft: All with Vno ≥ Vc min design speed.

Piper Comanche PA-24-180 (2550lbs/178sqft)
Vc min = 125 KEAS
Vno = 139 KCAS

Piper Comanche PA-24-250 (2900lbs/178sqft)
Vc min = 133 KEAS
Vno = 156 KCAS

Piper Comanche PA-24-400 (3600lbs/178sqft)
Vc min = 149 KEAS
Vno = 182 KCAS



Cessna 172R (2450lbs/174sqft)
Vc min = 124 KEAS
Vno = 126 KCAS

Cessna P210R(4100lbs/174sqft)
Vc min = 162 KEAS
Vno = 167 KCAS



Beechcraft C23 Sundowner (2450lbs/146sqft)
Vc min = 135.3 KEAS
Vno = 135.5 KCAS

Beachcraft S35 Bonanza (3300lbs/181sqft)
Vc min = 141 KEAS
Vno = 165 KTIAS ≈ KCAS



Mooney M20J (2740 lbs. - S/ N 24-0001 thru 24-3200, 24-3202 thru 24-3217) 2900 lbs. - S/N 24-3201, 24-3218 and ON and S/N 24-1686 thru 24-3200, 24-3202 thru 24-3217 when c/w MAC dwg. No. 940071 and insertion of applicable AFM Supplement into the appropriate AFM/174.8sqft)
Vc min = 131 KEAS (2740lbs) or 135 KEAS (2900lbs)
Vno = 152 KIAS or 174 KIAS for Serial No’s. 24-0171 and on, (and 24-0002 through 24-00170 if S.B. M20-198 is complied with).

Mooney M20M (3368lbs/174.8sqft)
Vc min = 145 KEAS
Vno = 174 KIAS

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