PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Lack of PIC time for CPL-A
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 00:40
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+TSRA
 
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Fred Kap - your inbox is saying it can't accept new messages. Here is my response to your PM as it applies equally to the OP:

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The first link you provided is for the crediting of co-pilot time towards the issuance of the ATPL - in other words, how a co-pilot can count their experience towards the licensing requirements. Back before 2014, a co-pilot could only count 50% of their experience. For example, in order to count 500 hours of co-pilot time, you'd have to fly 1,000 hours. Since 2014, you are allowed to credit 100%, or 1:1.

This has nothing to do with crediting of co-pilot time as PIC time. It is simply how to credit your time flown as a co-pilot towards the minimum experience levels. So, where you see in the standard "...or 200 hours as co-pilot..." that's what they're talking about. How to credit your experience against that sort of requirement.

The second link you provided is the Pilot-in-Command Under Supervision provisions. This is what permits a co-pilot to log their experience as PIC, but it's not that simple.

The big, massive caveat is described in paragraph 1): All air operators using large aeroplanes may institute programs of supervision to allow co-pilots to credit flight time as pilot-in-command time.

The emphasis on may is mine and is intentional.

This provision of the regulations - standards actually - means a co-pilot can only count their experience as PIC where the airline they are working for has a training program built to allow for it to happen. In all the airlines I have worked for, a co-pilot could only enter the program after they had completed their first year of service, had to have not failed a ride, and then only where the Captain specifically agreed before the flight that the hours would be counted as PICUS.

Not all air operators have a PICUS program and not all Captains agree to fly the flight as a PICUS flight. If you're unlucky to fly for an operator who doesn't have a PICUS program or you're flying with a Captain who refuses to help you out, you have to log the time as co-pilot.

Now, if the airline has a PICUS program, and if the Captain agrees to operate the flight under PICUS, then you can only count 50% of the flight time as PICUS (and you have to notarize it as PICUS time somehow, you can't just log it as PIC, because it's not, its PICUS). You also cannot count any more than 100 hours of PICUS towards the ATPL (so 200 hours flown), and you must log the time within the 12 months before you apply for the ATPL. Finally, you must submit to TC a summary of the hours flown under PICUS, the number of takeoffs and landings, and TC typically likes to see this form countersigned by each Captain you flew with, although not all programs require that from the Captain.

It's been my experience that most co-pilots only use PICUS if they have a few hours to clean-up - for example, they're short on their night PIC. If you're looking to build serious PIC time, it may be quicker and easier to rent a C172 and do a bunch of night cross-country flights, especially if you're itching to get your ATPL so that you can sit left seat in a 704 or 705 operation.

I know this is not the answer you're likely looking for, but Transport Canada holds the firm view that only one person can ever be in command, and if that's not you, then the best you can hope for is that the company you work for sees the value in allowing their co-pilots to do the duties of a Captain, while under supervision, for a couple of hours.

I know both Jazz and Encore have PICUS programs, as do most of the major charter airlines. But it is certainly worth asking the question in an interview, as you don't want to accept a job to then find out that the company doesn't have the program. Then you're definitely looking to rent again.
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