Originally Posted by
Strumble Head
A quick thank you to the informed sources who have commented to date (and those to come.) As a confirmed PPRuNe lurker with long experience in various facets of aviation ops, it was a shock to me to realise that I'd never had to get into the fine detail of what determines the need for de-icing on the ground, nor how it gets done in today's world.
So the steers to relevant sources have been invaluable. I've also been reminded that safe operations in icing or snowy conditions are very expensive in time, direct cost and indirect cost (people time, reduced throughput etc.)
This brought back a memory of being SLF on a jet where the first de-icing was not successful. There were well-meant if ignorant suggestions from some (management) quarters, keen to see the aircraft depart, that 'most' areas met standard and this was good enough.
This provoked some very very blunt responses for which I am now even more grateful. Classic situation where ground engineering and/or PIC can come under an awful lot of pressure to cut corners.
I operated a DC-9 32 flight into EWR one dark night. Supposed to be a quick turnaround. I went out for the walkaround, as Captain. Icy ramp, with light freezing rain coming down. So I talked to station manager, and said we "will need Type IV deicing wing and tail".
He informed me that they don't have any Type IV available, only Type 3 fluid. . Well I said in that case, we are going to the Hotel, and can he arrange crew transport ?
He came up to cockpit later, as I was talking to the F/O. Apparently he had "found " enough Type IV to use after all. So I told the Station Manager, I wanted to see him , standing in front of the aircraft , as it was deiced to ensure, (not trusting contract deice crew) that both wings and tail were given a proper overspray of Type IV fluid at the end.
If our 45 minute holdover time had been exceeded, before we could takeoff, we would have returned to the gate. Period.