gingernutter,. .. .I would suggest that the way Zeke presented his answer is the most professional way of doing it, since most of the questions come from folks who have never seen or been told of the source reference and who have to contend with all of the "experts" who know everything but can't tell you why they know they are right.. .. .A careful reading of the certification rule extracts often reveals the flaws in the knowledge of the self-appointed experts. That is also what I believe is the underlying principle that JT was pointing out.. .. .For the rest, I like to use the helicopter term "Vmin" meaning minimum speed for safe flight when discussing or demonstrating what is commonly (but erroneously) described as Vmca. Vmca is an artificial construct used in certification to ensure that a standard for controllability is met. The prerequisite criteria are rarely met in practise and the method used in certification testing is rarely replicated because it is not particularly representative of how you operate. The dynamic yaw and roll effects of sudden stoppage at maximum take-off power are not reflected, nor is the "ahh, !!!!!" time to recognise and respond. Therefore loss of control can realistically arrive considerably earlier in real life than the static certification number might suggest.. .. .And please, please note that 5 degrees of bank is the maximum permissible for the certification test not the mandatory solution!!