dynamite dean . . . .I wouldn't get too knotted up about the definitions in this case as they are of more relevance to the certification flight test program people than the line pilot.. .. .More important to remember that. .. .(a) Vmca, as quoted, is a somewhat artificial thing and specific to conditions which you are not likely to reproduce.. .. .(b) you indicate that you did plenty of "Vmca" practice during your endorsement training. Be aware that what you saw probably was not Vmca as demonstrated during the certification program but a static demonstration under conditions where the thrust output was reduced due to altitude and at a CG somewhat forward of the aft limit. Two dangers arise here. .. .(i) you can get the idea that the handling problems are less of a difficulty than they really are. .. .(ii) you can easily end up playing with such demonstrations at heights where the aircraft can be controlled directionally at speeds somewhat less than the published Vmca AND where Vs comes into play .... stall during a static Vmca demo and you invite a spin.. .. .(c) bank angle has a powerful influence on directional handling, hence the restriction on the manufacturer so that the test cannot use more than 5 degrees into the live engine(s). For the line situation, if the aircraft is somewhere near Vmca when a failure occurs, then the pilot has to control bank VERY aggressively or else the aircraft will easily be lost. This is the basis of a simulator exercise I use to great effect during endorsement training. I am of the opinion that the great majority of pilots have a totally unhealthy disrespect for handling problems in the vicinity of Vmca, especially during the dynamic excursions associated with a failure.. .. .As for me, I see very little benefit in exposing the real aircraft to the not inconsiderable hazards associated with Vmca demonstrations when, in reality, we should have a healthy respect for, and be staying well away from, that speed range.. .. .In general, if you are near Vmca in a lightie with one failed and at a decent AUW/DH, then the chances of successfully continuing flight are severely limited due to the abysmal excess thrust situation.. . . . <small>[ 05 March 2002, 23:26: Message edited by: john_tullamarine ]</small>