Originally Posted by
The name is Porter
Kinda proves my point.
At NO STAGE have I said the crew were not a factor.
It might pay to read all of my comments before coming to your own knee jerk conclusions.
P.S. ampan's delivery doesn't bother me in the slightest. Nor does anyone else's.
Still bollocks, it does nothing of the sort - I'm not even sure what the point is.
And
at NO STAGE have I said
you did. But there is a bunch of what I consider to be learned contributors that do. That is truely incongruous to me...
I understand the social more not to speak ill of the dead, and to defend those can't defend themselves, and not to heap more misery on the families but those serve no purpose in uncovering
all the factors that contributed to the accident.
I
have read
ALL of your comments, and
ALL of the 25 year anniversary thread because I was part of it - don't let the new handle throw you off, my prune start date is out by about 20 years - nothing I've seen since I left has made me regret missing the better part of two decades of mostly crap that turns up on here. But I just can't let this rest - it is inconceivable that otherwise profession aviators can defend the crew action on the basis of "well everybody else did it"! I mean WTF? are 5 year olds? My observing that they played a part DOES NOT mean that I disregard the company antics, the lack of training, the corporate arrogance, the changing of the waypoint, whiteout, Collins was an alleged meticulist (It's a word - really!) etc - it just means that saying everybody else did it is no defence. I'm truely sorry for them that this is the case, they were absolutely handed a loaded gun and that sucks, but it was not preordained that they would hit the hill when they left Auckland. It just wasn't. If any one of the myriad factors in Megan's swiss cheddar were removed, then the accident wouldn't have happened as it did. One of those factors was the crew descending below MSA in "unlimited" visibility that prevented them somehow from seeing a very tall mountain that was just 27nm to their left (so they thought). I know
why the didn't
SEE it, but why did NOT SEEING it (either left OR right) not lead them to question what they were seeing, and by extension, where they were?
If that factor (read decision) was removed, again, there would be no accident - ergo, it
WAS a factor. It can't not be! All the rest of this fluff is just trying to obfuscate the facts. As is all the recent bandwagoners that "contribute" to the thread by saying "..its becoming ridiculous", "rehashing history" and "going round and round in circles". Thanks guys
You'd be enlightening on the flight deck too I bet....
For those who play the blame game, who would you blame here? We lost an F-111 which crashed into an island on a low level night flight, many parallels to Erebus in my eyes.
And here is the problem in a nutshell. Someone, who from my observation has a brain,
still trying to distill it down to BLAME. Despite Ampan, PH6 et al suspect delivery style, NOT ONE OF THEM IS APPORTIONING BLAME. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS UTTERLY FLUMMOXED HOW ANYONE CAN SAY THE CREW WERE
"blameless" (if you must use that term), or NOT REMOTELY RESPONSIBLE, and should be TOTALLY EXONERATED. Somehow if you point out that the crew were
a factor, you are BLAMING the crew - solely and entirely. Why do you do that Megan/3-hole?