Originally Posted by
PapaHotel6
Collins made gargantuan errors with gargantuan consequences.
Hearsay. By what actual criteria do you assess someone as 'methodical" and then extrapolate that to the likelihood of making an error?
Of course you ask "why" he made the error - to not do so would be imbecilic - but the answer isn't hard. Collins was put into an unfamiliar environment and asked to perform a task (sightseeing) in which he had no experience. When you do that, even good people start making silly mistakes.
Actually, no, the KLM Captain wasn't. And even if he was, does that explain away his catastrophic error?
A colleague of Collins in the "25 year thread" said he "could be a pleasant chap to fly with, but had a hard nosed streak". I've also heard via another ex colleague of Collins (hearsay again) that recently before the crash, a First Officer had filed an incident report against him over a dangerous approach into NAN. He also failed school certificate mathematics. Make of that what you will; but from my high school days I don't remember that exam as one that should be a challenge for someone you'd envisage being in command of a heavy jet.
The point is, posthumously you can paint pretty much any picture you want to paint of someone. But if you believe that Collins possessed some special qualities that made the possibility of him committing major errors of judgement remote; you're an idiot.
What an arrogant response... I NEVER said he was incapable of making an error but you have said yourself in your response (where you allude to me being an idiot) "Collins was put into an unfamiliar environment and asked to perform a task (sightseeing) in which he had no experience."... AND WHO PUT HIM THERE WITHOUT ADEQUATE PREPARATION OR EXPERIENCE??? by your logic, throwing someone into a war zone with no training and no weapons knowledge, the person would be responsible for their own death when they inevitably got shot by the enemy???
Like I said, you cannot view it in a vacuum... yes, Air NZ put him in the unfamiliar environment, Air NZ failed to properly prepare the crew, Air NZ tolerated the low flying then claimed they didn't know, Air NZ shredded the documents, Air NZ gave the inconsistent evidence, Air NZ went against the advice of the USAF in operating the flights in the first place. But you suggest it's Collins' fault... or that seems like what you're saying.
If you can't comprehend basic concepts such as an environment influencing behaviour, then you're an idiot.
If you walk down the passageway in your house with the lights on, then do it with the lights off in a blackout and fall on your face... are you to blame for falling over or is it a product of the environment... or does the power outage play no part???
Once again, I never said he was perfect and if indeed he'd been reported for something he'd done wrong on another flight then yes, we all make mistakes, but that is irrelevant as it was a different scenario.
And considering the KLM accident prompted the development of CRM I'd suggest the Captain's demeanour was typical of some crew at the time and was typical of his behaviour according to crew he had flown with.
When Collins was allegedly reported by a First Officer... was he in sector whiteout, in a snowstorm, with no visual cues and operating with the wrong coordinates or different coordinates to what he was told he was operating to.