PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures
Old 1st Dec 2019, 16:27
  #4199 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 77
Posts: 1,141
Way off topic now, are we?
Well, having done hundreds of rolls and "things you have not dreamed of", to borrow a line from High Flight.
You can roll easily without initially getting the nose high if in a small, or nimble plane. Problem with the big boys is inertia, and nose will dig in easily. Hence nose high to start. OTOH....

The ET flight had extreme nose down trim, so every degree of roll from normal erect provides less of a lift vector below the horizon, right? Eventually, all of its lift vector is above the horizon when completely inverted. So a technique I used on most jets to avoid the nose high entry was applying forward stick and a touch of nose down trim as bank angle increased past 90 deg, and maybe some top rudder until over 90 deg of bank. Could literally roll within 20 feet of initial altitude, and the T-birds and Bluers and Arrows and Snowbirds show this every performance. So Denzel's manuever is theoretically possible. And worry about motors quiting later. 737 flies O.K in glider mode due to the mechanical connections, right? We need "wonkazoo" to comment, as he flew aerobatic demos all the time.

The Alaska folks should get a post humous medal of honor for even trying the Denzel trick, as they had nothing to loose. And IMHO biggest mistake was not trying to land when things started acting up. Of course if they didn't turn off the electric trim motor, then they could have lost it over L.A.

I feel the complete ET flight report will assign some contributing factor to the crew for not slowing down, and likely mention CRM. I feel that they did not know enough about the mechanization of MCAS that kept applying nose down trim when they were not countering it with the button of the wheel, plus the 5 second delay, plus......

Gums opines...
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