John Farley,. .. .Thanks for your kind remarks. This is a great way to debate and discuss, isn't it?!. .. .Lima, you make a valid point (and one which I understand, especially having flown the ATR - I thought it was a wonderful aircraft, btw). However, you have to realise that (a) the authorities set a standard, then, (b) a manufacturer builds an aircraft which meets the standard, then (c) people go flying in it. Multiple failures are not accounted for in these standards, and it is 'assumed' that systems will usually work as advertised.. .. .OK, bad things have happened in turboprops, but this does not mean that every turboprop which flies into icing will suffer the fate which you propose. I have some great photographs of the 'Ice detector' on the ATR, covered with sparkly white stuff (about two inches of it), to prove my mettle and my belief in the systems which were protecting me at the time. However, I was also 'ice aware', and would not have climbed the aircraft in V/S in those circumstances. Knowledge may not be power, but it certainly helps awareness.