"Think you need a beer !". .. .I do too, but that's not going to answer my question GR..... .. .To cut a long story short... If the N1 remains at the same value with bleed demands after trimming, what's the point of having a discretes card?.... I'm sure the EEC is quite capable of sensing any shortfall in engine speed as a result of bleed demands and boosting it back to the level required by the TMC or thrust lever. No?. .. .Thnx. .Q.