I was awake early this morning listening to an old inteview with Jimmy Carter (ex President), and it got me thinking...........,
Interviewer- Good morning Glen, thanks for spending some time with us today. You do seem to have a few more grey hairs than when we met last time.
Glen- Ummm. aviation “silver” we call it. Pilots have silver hair, not grey. You may have also noticed I’ve lost a lot of weight.
Interviewer- Yes, I did actually, probably about 10 kg, but I opted for the insult rather than the complement. (awkward silence…..)
On your weight loss, was it the Jenny Craig program?
Glen- No, my kids affectionately call it the “CASA”, diet program at home.
Interviewer- Oh Im not aware of that program.
Glen- It’s a highly engineered program designed within the Aviation group at CASA. It works on creating stress, anxiety, and sleeplessness over a period of at least 10 months. Its very effective for the weight loss, but the side effects are the grey, oops, I mean silver hair.
Im not happy with the program actually, and im going to make sure its removed from the shelves. Its quite dangerous and I don’t want anybody else’s life ruined by it. Its been around far too long, and effected too many people.
Interviewer- OK, anyway Glen. What I would like to do over the following series of interviews is go back to the start and pull this apart piece by piece in a nice easy to understand interview style. I appreciate that it’s a highly emotive issue for you, but I would like to try and take that out of it.
Im trying to come up with a comprehensive plain English overview of the story, and your concerns. It is an important story because too often in Australia, we have seen what happens when Governance standards drop, and the community is affected. We have seen the tragic outcomes of poor governance recently in the Church and the banking sector, unfortunately for many it came too late. Whilst not of the gravity of the scandal within the church, I suggest as this affects aviation safety in Australia, it should be considered more important than the Banking inquiry, after all that was only about money and not the potential loss of human lives.
Glen- Beautiful lead in I must say,. couldn't have done it better myself. We really work well together don't we?
Interviewer (blushes awkwardly)
Glen- Whilst my issue is about my situation and those effected, we really do have a situation where CASA is actually compromising safety, compromising, regulatory compliance, crushing businesses, and costing jobs. It all comes back to bad governance, and its costing our Country dearly. If CASA didn’t operate under the Australian Coat of Arms, I wouldn’t take such exceoption. But that Coat of Arms indicates to me the very highest of standards and ethics. I do expect each and every person in CASA to operate in accordance with the obligations placed on them, in the interests of improved safety outcomes. Those include, the Ministers Statement of Expectations, CASAs own Regulatory Philosophy, CASAs Enforcement Manual, Administrative law, the PGPA Act and other obligations placed on them.
Interviewer- Substantial allegations Glen.
Glen- Yes. They are, and I embrace the opportunity to substantiate them….. Sorry ive just realise the time. I have this ritual I’ve been doing 7 days a week for years now at a local coffee shop. We call it “Fat Daddys”. A group of Dads catch up every morning. I must shoot off, but look forward to continuing the interview on my return.
2 hours later...….
Interviewer- Welcome back Glen, please continue.....
Glen- Thankyou. First, as I appreciate many of our listeners may be from outside of aviation, it may work best if I get some of the jargon out the way first. Its probably best to gain an understanding of the CASA Organisational structure at the Regional level. The overall organisational structure of CASA can be found on the CASA website
https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-pag...sational-chart
The Southern Region of CASA predominantly looks after Victorian and Tasmanian based aviation operators, headed up by a Regional Manager and supported by three CMTs.
Interviewer- Sorry CMTs?
Glen- Yes, a Certificate Management Team (CMT). There are three of them in Southern Region, and each team is responsible for working with an allocated group of organisations. On those teams is a Team Leader supported by Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) on each of the following topics, Safety, Maintenance, and Flying school operations. The team would ideally have a dozen people on it, but due to staff shortages the teams are under resourced at the moment, and have been for a long time.
Intereviewer- You said CASA were under resourced. If they were under resourced, surely they would be prioritising tasks on the basis of safety, and maximising safety outcomes, rather than wasting taxpayer funds chasing after you for no valid reason. After all they are the national aviation safety regulator. That sounds quite ridiculous what you suggest. I cant believe that they would really be chasing you, fumbling around on flight and duty times for years, struggling to implement flawed legislation, as I said, they are the Countries aviation safety regulator. Doesn't CASA have important matters to be attending to.
Glen Ahhh, yes, you would have to ask CASA about that. The CASA Group Executive Aviation sets those priorities and directs resources. You can see him on the Organisational Chart. Hes a very important person.
Interviewer That's great, so now we know about the CASA Organisational Structure with the Executive Manager of Aviation within CASA being Mr Graeme Crawford. Down the chain is the Southern Region with the Regional Manager supported by three CMTs and each CMT being responsible for its own group of aviation businesses. Obviously the CMT are the flying schools first point of contact.
Glen -Yes
Interviewer- So lets look at CMT 2 for example who were your oversighting team for many many years. These teams obviously work collaboratively with industry to maximise safety. I guess they do this by building a relationship of trust and confidence. I get it, im only an interviewer, with no safety training, but obviously if CASA build a relationship of trust and confidence, communication improves and you get safer outcomes. Its obvious really. You must appreciate these teams?
Glen absolutely as long as you get a good one.
Interviewer (spits coffee out everywhere in suprise), what do you mean a good CMT? Aren't they all applying policy uniformly.
Glen- (leans over to his large mug of coffee, takes an enormous gulp, and sprays a full mouthful of coffee back over the interviewer)
Interviewer- it is a big country Glen, you have to appreciate that uniform policy application has its challenges. Be reasonable. These CMTs could be located many miles from each other and not have the opportunity to communicate.....
Glen -Sorry to cut you off. Theses CMTs with completely opposite policy application actually work in the very same office.
Interviewer- ( leans over and takes an enormous gulp of coffee). Interview temporarily halted.
Interview resumes
Interviewer Anyway I want to get on to APTA, the background, how it came about etc. I've done a lot of background research on your organisation the Australasian Philatelic Traders Association or APTA as you call it, in fact I've bought along some of my favourite stamps to show you.
Glen- ITS APTA. A.P.T.A It stands for a the Australian Pilot Training Alliance. The only stamps we have are 'first solo" stamps.
I might take a little more control over this interview if you don't mind. I will start with a bit about the background, and an overview of the industry
If we go back 20 years, there were flying schools operating all over Australia, hundreds of them. Most of those flying schools, like mine delivered a Commercial Pilot Licence course, in fact there were two courses a 150 flying hour course and a 200 hour course. For obvious reasons the more cost effective 150 hour course was the preferred option, and in fact my business, like many others derived over 90% of its income stream from the 150 hour course.
Very late in the program the proposed legislation changed fundamentally and it was presented to industry that we had until September 1st of 2017 to completely overhaul each and every flying school and undergo a re-approval process. At the completion of that process schools would re-emerge as either a Part 141 school or a Part 142 school. If the process wasn't completed by that date, a flying school would not be permitted to operate.
Interviewer So which one did you choose?
Glen Another good question. My business MFT was a great little Mum and Dad type business, my strong preference would have been to remain that way. Unfortunately the clincher was that after September 1st, unless i stepped up to the larger 142 school i was to lose access to the 150 hour CPL.
Interviewer Obviously some tough decisions had to be made whether you stayed as the smaller business or upgraded to the Part 142.
Glen To be honest, i didnt have many options. After September 1st 2017 i was going to lose access to 90% of my revenue stream. The business value was wiped out, as no one was going to buy a business that was soon to lose 90% of its revenue due a legislative change, so my hand was forced and i commenced on the path to the 142 category school.
Interviewer i was doing some background research and i came accross a thing called the Regulation Impact Statement. I believe its the document that CASA were required to prepare prior to undertaking the change, and outlines the impact on industry of the legislative change. I notice here where it covers the impact on business of the proposed change. Can i read it to you. Its not long.
Glen i can quote the entire section off the top of my head. I know its short, but its also grossly negligent in its inaccuracy. it says
Businesses- The existing flight crew training businesses will be required to meet new standards, however, again whilst these represent a deviation from existing standards the changes are relatively minor, which is supported by the feedback that CASA obtained from the consultation process.
Interviewer so the changes were minor and that was supported by industry feedback.
Glen- Waiter, can you pop over when you are free.
Waiter what can I get you sir.
Glen to Waiter I notice we don't have coffee, could you please set an urn up just next to us. Could we also get some towels to clean up, I think this is going to get messy this afternoon.
Glen The changes that were "relatively minor" were in fact the biggest regulatory overhaul that the Australian aviation industry has ever experienced. To suggest that they were relatively minor was preposterous and just demonstrates that CASA had no idea of what they had created. I actually requested the "industry feedback" under Freedom of Information, and it most definitely does not support CASAs contention.
Interviewer Glen, relax your getting all worked up again. Have a cup of coffee. ooops im wearing white today, perhaps a glass of water.
Glen Anyway, i sat down and commenced work on the enormous task of overhauling every aspect of the business. I asked CASA if there was any guidance material available to assist with the process. I remember the answer so claerly "if you want to be a Part 142, you should be able to write it yourself". It was immediately obvious that CASA had little idea of what they had created. Being a proactive guy, i approached my CMT, made two verbal offers and made two written offers which i have right here with me. You will see how i offered to fund a CASA person on my business for 12 months. We would write the manual together, and make it available to industry as template at no charge. I have a personal philosophy that if i go to someone with a problem, i must also have a proposed solution. Its too easy to be negative and just throw stones, after all that's what CASA does.
Interviewer sorry Glen that last comment was a "cheap shot"
Glen You got me on that one sorry. Anyway we started on the task of writing the manuals with no CASA guidance material. Surprise suprise, CASA guidance material is published many months later. Lots of hard work goes in the bin and we launch off with the now available guidance material. It was obvious that the new regulatory structure was prohibitively expensive. In fact, i couldn't see how any schools could survive. The increased costs of running the business under the new structure, far exceeded the profit the business made. I simply couldn't understand how i had to undergone all this change simply to keep doing what i had always done. So in conjunction with one of my Mangers we came up with the APTA concept.
Interviewer can you give me a plain English overview of APTA?
Glen Ohhh goodie, do you mind if I stand on the table, I love talking about APTA.
Once we had a good review of the proposed legislation we realised that a collaborative approach was best. Much the way that IGA provides the opportunity to 1400 independently owned operators to survive in an environment against the Majors.
We would maintain a dedicated Head Office and within that Head Office would be substantial capability. The Head Office would hold the approvals, i.e. Part 141 and Part 142 on issue, as well as the Registered Training Organisation approval and our approval to train international students. We would invest significantly to provide an industry leading safety department. We would have Key Personnel pre-approved by CASA to ensure high levels of redundancy. We would develop substantial IT systems that covered all CASA requirements and provided high levels of oversight.
With CASA knowledge we had been looking after another flying school under our AOC, and that will be more relevant later. This gave us the opportunity to develop our systems based on our experience sharing the AOC with them.
CASA were very encouraging of the concept and we worked side by side attending to over 600 individual CASA requirements. In fact CASA commented on how many hours they spent with us designing the systems.
Anyway, after years of work attending to all of the CASA requirements, the September 1st 2017 deadline was approcahing, and i felt we were well placed. In fact we were amongst the first schools ready in Australia to undertake the Transition to the new Part 141 and 142 format.
Interviewer- So you were one of the minority of schools that were ready by the deadline?-
Glen Yes, It seemed absurd that CASA was proceeding because the vast majority of schools weren’t going to be ready by the deadline. I confirmed with CASA that the new requirements were indeed going to commence on September 1st 2017.
CASA assured me they were. I flicked the switch and activated my Part 141 and 142 as required by CASA. I achieved this in April 2017 about four months ahead of the deadline.
I activated all of the costly structures associated with being a Part 142 as required of me by CASA.
Sure enough, yet another backflip, weeks later CASA changed their mind, delayed the whole thing 12 months until September 1st of 2018.
Interviewer- So how did that effect you.
Glen- Enormously. I had 5 additional personnel in place in anticipation of the new regulatory structure. The cost of the salaries alone was in excess of $500,000 per annum.
Also, the concept of APTA was unique, had the legislation proceeded as CASA assured, I would have had very few competitors, and been well placed in the market to grow APTA. By delaying 12 months, I had 4 times the amount of competitors, that I would have, had the legislation proceeded as assured by CASA on its original date.
Also, CASA changing their mind, actually removed the need for APTA by 12 months because flying schools would need the protection that APTA offered as the regulatory environment it was designed for, was now delayed by 12 months. As you will appreciate the impact was significant.
Interviewer So, what did you do?
Glen I met with my accountant, he advised that I had two options. Make redundancies or lose your home to finance the 12 months of operations. I met with my family and discussed my predicament. I could make redundancies if the sales were dropping because staff were not performing. It is far more difficult to make redundancies because CASA changed their mind. Each and every one of those staff that I had surrounded myself by, was important to me. Accountants can throw the word “redundancy” around far easier than a business owner. It speaks to the character of my young adult children that the decision was unanimous. My family homes was sold, to fund the operation for 12 months. No redundancies were made, and every valued staff member retained their position on their full salary, as they were entitled to.
Interviewer What a tough decision.
Glen Not at all!. No member of my family has any regrets about their decision.
Despite this delay, the business did manage to continue on, at great cost for twelve months as we waited for the postponed date of September 1st, 2018 to come around. We built up our customer base and worked towards repairing the damage caused by the CASA induced 12 month delay.We continued working professionally with CMT 2 (Certificate Management Team 2) When I was later notified of a change of CMT 2 to CMT 3, I have on record, a requested one on one meeting with my then Regional Manager (RM) to express my concerns. I had concerns about a member of my new team. My concern with the new CMT Team was that I felt a member of that team would have an apprehended bias and would not act impartially.
Interviewer Sorry to be so "PC" but i really dont think you should be bringing peoples personal and sexual preferences intio the argument!
Glen (looking like a stunned mullet for 10 seconds until it dawned on him. He quickly changes his face to a more knowledgeable one). No, No, and apprehended bias is a legal term,
Interviewer So what does it mean?
Glen Ummm. i dont know, it was a term thrown at me at bbq with a lawyer present. I was telling them about my predicament. In fact she threw two words at me, the otherv was Estoplle, or something similar. I have no idea what they mean, and thats why i am trying to raise $50,000 on my gofundme page, simply head over there, search Glen Buckley, and help me get the $50,000 requirede to have the legal system assess the entire fiasco, not someone on the CASA payroll.
Interviewer Glen, seriously that was a shameless plug of your website at =left
https://www.gofundme.com/f/glen-buck...Xpz3Mt3w1v5h0A
Glen (looking admiringly). Like I said. We work well together!
Interviewer, i might just recap the main points in dot form to date if that's OK.
CASA introduced a legislative change that mandated you had to comply with a completely new set of operating procedures after September 1st 2017, if your business was to continue operating.
You made an enormous investment to meet all of the 600 CASA stipulated requirements, and worked side by side with CASA as they assessed every one of CASAs specified criteria.
You thought CASA was massively under resourced, so in April 2017, you sought confirmation from CASA that the new rule set was going ahead. It seemed impossible most schools in Australia weren't ready, but CASA assured you that it was, so you complied with their requirement and transitioned in April, about 4 months ahead of the deadline, and picked up the expensive associated operating structures.
Weeks later, CASA did yet another ( there had been many) bacflips, and delayed the requirement, but that was too late for you. Your business then limped on for 12 months waiting for the date to come. You were effectively left with a white elephant.
The new date came of September 1st 2018, came, and finally your business was ready to operate in the environment.
You were notified of a change of CMT, after many years with CMT 2 to CMT 3. Someone on that team had a "reputation" and you felt he may bring harm to you or your business. You requested a one on one, on the record with the Regional Manager to express your concerns about this new CASA person on the CMT. Your concerns were not acted on.
Shortly afterwards, that very same individual, then initiated a process, that after 12 months, has caused so much damage to so may people.
Glen Fantastic summary, but I hadn't told you that last part yet, that was coming later. The bit about the person on the CASA CMT 3 starting the problems.
Interviewer OOPS! So who was this person?
Glen It was actually the Flight Operations Inspector (FOI )from my own CASA CMT, CMT 3. The role of the FOI in the team is that he or she, is really the number one person in CASA that should be building a relationship of confidence, and trust. They are the primary contact person within CASA for the flying school. To this day, I am amazed that a multi million dollar investment can be made in the flight training industry, and one individual in CASA decides to bring the whole thing down. My expectation was that "good governace would" prevail and protect me and my business. Good goverance is something CASA no nothing about. That extends right to the top of the Aviation Group in CASA and through to Board level. Its truly disgraceful
Interviewer Ooops, I let the cat out of the bag!