Originally Posted by
wonkazoo
No boofhead, you've got it completely backwards. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speak for PilotMike and others: Our issue is that you are taking substantially incomplete information and coming to a definitive conclusion about a complex series of events that resulted in the deaths of many people. Not only are you coming to a conclusion prematurely you are placing the blame/responsibility squarely on those who are not here to defend themselves, which is precisely why waiting until the facts have been released to make such judgments is not only critical, it is the only decent thing to do. Finally, you are making these declarative judgments about actual now-deceased individuals and their performance not in a thread about pilot performance, training or whatever you want, but in a thread about the eventual (??) return of the 737 MAX and the impact of the FAA's review of their own certification process that led to the disaster in the first place.
Posting an off-topic post (or a dozen) is just rude. Flaying the dead before the facts have been fully revealed is pure cruelty.
My .02 as always, and thankfully I'm headed to a far away place where it is entirely possible I will be deprived of having to respond to posts like these. Lucky me!!
Cheers all-
dce
Im going to have to throw out the bs flag here. The vast majority of this thread consists of people here working with a substantial incomplete set of facts and drawing premature conclusions about a complex series of events that may or may not hold up once all the facts are known. Some here speculate, in an amazing amount of intricate detail I might add, about virtually every aspect of how Boeing and the FAA may have screwed this up and I dont see anyone calling for a halt to that discussion so it seems you only want to apply that rule only as it effects the crew. If you really think people need to STFU until all the evidence is in then they need to STFU about all of it and not just the pilot training issues. Personally I think the discussion is fine as long as it doesn't get personal. These accidents were ultimately about people and the choices they made whether they were an engineer, a test pilot, a Boeing manager, a FAA regulator, an airline executive, a aircraft technician, a training syllabus designer, and yes even a pilot. They all own a piece of this puzzle and they all are proper subjects of scrutiny.
As far as the "dead pilots" defense I strongly suspect that if by some weird twist of fate the entire Boeing design team was sitting in the back of one of the accident aircraft there wouldn't be lots of people saying we shouldnt' look at their decisions just becaused they perished. It doesn't matter what we think anyway because the crew issues will be looked at as it is in any accident investigaton. This isn't anything personal and no one is flogging the dead. They may have all been great people but they were a product of the industry that trained them and if that training was defective, which the evidence seems to indicate, then that training needs to be fixed before the MAX is allowed to fly.
You accuse Boffhead of going off topic, however the thread title has the words "reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures" so excuse me if I point out that you can't really discuss procedures without discussing the end user, the pilots, who will be implementing those procedures and perhaps whether the existing procedures were adequate or were or were not implemented correctly and why or why not. There are a couple of parallel discussions in other Pprune threads that are talking about all the current problems with pilot training and experience worldwide and given what we know of the pilots response to the "complex series or events" I think their training or lack of same is very germane to the topic of "reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures." I'm just as sick about the loss of life as anyone and I want to see alot of changes made through and through, not just fix the jet. Fix the crappy oversight by the FAA. Fix the "just the minimum" training philosophy. Fix the whole squeeze the costs out of every corner of the operation so we can make our quarterly numbers and get our bonuses mindset that made the MAX an accident waiting to happen. Just my .02 cents.