Originally Posted by
galdian
If i'v missed it in the postings apologies - but have we defined the heights and circumstances attached to a "Go Around" call??
If you're doing an approach in bad weather then the potential for a missed approach/go around has been briefed, it's posible a go around could be called BEFORE the minima if hand flying or raw data and out of tolerance.
Thing that gets me is:
- "go around" + no reason = confusion
-"go around" + reason (probably reason then "go around") = understanding
What on earth are you on about. How can there be any confusion about "Go around". Its as simple as it gets. Go around. Now you want to introduce a discussion into this time critical flight phase? Thats going to 'clear up the confusion' ?
Originally Posted by
galdian
](73NG) if we're at 700' in visual conditions and F/O notices a gear unsafe condition ie a main gear green light is blank and his first reaction is "go around" my first quetion will be "what do the overhead gear lights show", if he say "all green" should I go around because of his forgetfullness of the landing gear indication system??
So, we're at 700 ft when suddenly we're going to start systems troubleshooting and having a discussion. Under that time pressure, what happens when in a rush and confused as to why you want to have a debate, he/she misreads the overhead gear indication and you end up landing gear unsafe? What do you say to the coroner when asked why you didn't comply with the FO's Go Around call?
Originally Posted by
galdian
Due experience and flying in the "real asmosphere" I understand catching a trend rather than an actual speed in gusty conditions, slow to pull off thrust with speed increase but fast to add power with speed decrease, substandard training in SIMs and crappy conforming instructors make too many think the airspeed will NEVER change regardless of the actual wind conditions.
If I'm within nav tolerances on finals but the wind is causing speed fluctuations - which are being corrected - but out of stable approach criteria AT TIMES and the F/O calls out "go around" should I go around??
Depends on what your ops manual says. Are temporary excursions permitted? If so, this should have been briefed as part of the arrival. "Due to the significant turbulence on final, call me on sustained deviations only. Do you have any questions or complaints about this?"
Originally Posted by
galdian
Appears consensus is that at any time/height someone says "go around" without explanation you don't question, you just do - and as above that's rubbish.
So much rubbish that its literally SOP at every airline in the developed world.
Originally Posted by
galdian
The criteria need to be refined/re-defined, authority of the PIC to use his experience and commonsense (when applicable) needs to be incorperated and I'd suggest companies/ops manuals state clearly that IF a Captain ignores calls and the aircraft is clearly in a potentially dangerous position the copilot will be thrown in gaol if he DOESN'T take over to ensure the safety of the aircraft, assuming he survives any subsequent accident.
So hold on, above youre making a case for the Captain to be able to ignore FO calls of a GA if he/she thinks the call spurious. Now you state however that the FO should be put in jail if they don't take over to prevent an unsafe situation. The entire reason why the FO called GA was for precisely that situation! This literally makes no sense.
I honestly don't understand how people are getting this so wrong. How many hulls needs to be smashed into the ground before some people recognize that it takes 2 people to operate these aircraft, and both of them must be happy and satisfied to continue with a landing. What is the cost of a go around, vs pushing on in an unsafe condition. Because I assure you, in every single case where a Captain has flown the thing into the ground despite the FO's please, at that time, the Captain thought he knew better, just like above.
So when an FO calls go around, your first response is to ask why? Do you think this is a good time to have a discussion? How much time do you allocate for this discussion?