Originally Posted by
gums
Salute!
Thanks Bend and PEI.
I just have a hard time with Boeing not keeping the manual electric trim operating when MCAS does its trick.
Looks like Boeing is sticking to the "existing procedures would have prevented the crashes" story. Ditto for some of the uber pilots here. Problem is recognizing what is wrong and the magnitude/length of the MCAS commands.
PEI might be able to explain it in technical terms that some here will not fathom, but I say go for it.
- Why can't the trim commands be a function that uses "q" and mach as we did in the Viper instead of a "bang-bang" fixed amount and fixed time of application? In other words, follow a geometric plot as we did for AoA versus gee and control deflection gains.
- If MCAS is using the A/P circuits, why disable other force functions such as the control column switches for force ( not the electric switches).
Gotta be nore than meets the eye, and I do not feel training is the answer. Fer chrissakes, we are not training Top Gun fighter pilots or NASA astronauts.
Gums sends...
Hi there Gums. Always enjoy your posts which throw up interesting points
Think this is the core of the problem. My view is that the pilots I grew up with
were the top guns of the civil world. They needed to be. B747 quadruple engine failure. b744 turned upside down by intruder and lost 2 miles altitude in 90 seconds. Sioux City. Hudson River + a thousand more. All flown to the a safe landing, or least worst outcome as per Sioux City.
So, Boeing fix MCAS and make sure you can trim STAB in all realistic scenarios. Done already I would imagine. Software + hardware fixes. Awaiting the politicians and spin doctors on both sides - ah! And lawyers, to release plane for service.
So alls we’ll then. Back to “normal”. Well no. Because we’ve been going down a path for some years of downgrading pilot training to the point where the only time they are really needed- when automatics fail badly, they can’t cope.
A daily example and exception is xwind landings which currently automatics can’t do > 25 kts wet. Max wind 30:kts.
But they practice it so often that’s ok.
But given an ET style multiple failure scenario, or QF Ex SIN they have nothing to fall back on. And unless our engineer friends can produce a crash proof plane, dream on, this is going to get worse.
so the nightmare facing the industry and regulators is not MCAS or STAB issues. It’s the thousands of pilots already out there like this, and the 30,000 needed over next few decades.
My view? Bite the bullet and train them. But, the core of the problem is there aren’t enough of them with the “right stuff” to be trained. Start up airlines popping up and just buying “”:buses with wings” and some xbox guys to fly them.
In my airline (one of...) it took 10-15 years 10,000 hours to be put in command. And boy were you glad when the unexpected was thrown at you.
But I hear some say”get that dinosaur off this forum before my brain explodes with anger and indignation! “
Isn’t there a forum for old farts that he could join? Where he can dream of halcyon days when pilots could fly a plane with stick and rudder and a thing called airmanship? And think outside the box and understand the systems enough to know right from wrong?
I will tootle off now and take my blood pressure pills.
Y
Im looking for one,