Originally Posted by
john_tullamarine
.... Suggest those who have a more cavalier attitude should read the relevant version of AC23-8 to get a feel for what might have applied to their aircraft in addition to whatever might be included in the POH/AFM.
Interesting that for my FAR 23 certified airplane the manual states not to use the aileron as large aileron deflections will aggravate a near-stalled condition - it does indeed. I can demonstrate that a small aileron deflection near the stall will cause the opposite wing to drop, just like simple pilot theory. I'm not an old wife but feel free to call me a dinosaur.
John T and I generally only discuss certified airplanes. We now have AC 23-15 for small, simple low performance airplanes which still requires testing for abnormal control usage in that first turn of a spin. Worth noting that the spin testing required for LSAs is much less stringent than for FAR 23 normal category. Then there are homebuilts.
Stall recovery per the manual for my certified airplane is lower nose and add full power simultaneously. Use the rudder to maintain lateral control. Pretty much what CASA states in the stall chapter of the Flight Instructor Manual. Get it not quite right and it will spin doing that per
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=455183408172041 (near the start of the video).
The placard summarising the emergency spin recovery procedure for FAR 23 normal category types is relevant. Normal category certification flight tests start that spin recovery procedure at one turn (or 3 seconds). The emergency spin recovery procedure is to be used when stall recovery is delayed or messed up and it is progressing towards a spin. Still in the incipient stage by that one turn. Do people assume that the emergency spin recovery procedure in the placard and in the AFM is only to be used once you are in a fully developed spin with a normal category airplane?
Originally Posted by
john_tullamarine
I suggest that the OWT about aileron's being a killer in the stall dates back aeons to the rather early rag bag aeroplanes with yaw and local stall problems associated with the use of aileron. The basic story is, read the POH/AFM guidance and limitations and stick with that information.
Nought on the subject in the AFM of a newish normal category airplane that I sometimes fly so I'd go with the new, rewritten advice in Chapter 4 of the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook at
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...lane_handbook/ Fairly consistent with what one sees in an AFM about stalls and spins.
The FAA's new guidance is fairly straightforward - you get a stall recovery template and a spin recovery template (subject to what's in the AFM). Fairly clear as to when each is applicable. AFMs are the same - they talk about stall then they talk about spin. Nothing in between.
By comparison, CASA's Flight Instructor Manual has a method for stall recovery with an additional action for an uncommanded roll at the stall. Then it has two different incipient spin recovery methods in the spin chapter. Then it goes on to the recovery from the fully developed spin.
CASA on 23rd May: "CASA is developing further guidance material in relation to the conduct of incipient spins and advanced stalls and how to meet the flight training and testing standards in the Part 61 manual of standards. We expect to finalise these over the coming weeks." "Further guidance"?? - has there been any so far?
"It also highlighted that there can be varying interpretations of an ‘incipient spin’, and this has led to aircraft not approved for intentional spins being used for incipient spin training and assessment." Naturally, as CASA has never defined an incipient spin.
"Flight training operators, their Heads of Operations and Flight Examiners are obliged to ensure that aircraft used for training, flight reviews and testing purposes are certified for the manoeuvres being performed." I wonder why CASA didn't offer this advice upon reviewing Ops Manuals or non-conformances at audits when they know that types not approved for intentional spins are being used for incipient spin training.
Further good information from the FAA in their AC 61-67
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_61-67C.pdf