PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - US administration blames foreign pilots for 737 Max crashes
Old 18th May 2019, 10:08
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fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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The latest reported comments ascribed to Boeing and the FAA are offensive to the majority of customers for the US product that these two entities have responsibility over.

At some point, perhaps the CEO of Boeing should take time out and read the FCTM that his company provided to the crew.

For the record, Boeings own document states that in the case of a severe out of trim condition, that the aircraft should be flown to regain the speed commensurate to the out of trim case, and then the trim forces will be relieved sufficiently to permit the trim system to be reset as desired. It is remarkable that Boeing and the FAA apparently cite keeping power on as a sign of incompetence, when the trim moment form thrust on is nose up, and the out of trim condition requires gaining high speed as soon as possible, which suggests keeping power on as not being such a stupid idea that it would be used to make offensive comment from the people who gave MCAS unannounced, killed 350+ people... frankly, I am embarrassed on their behalf. For the pilot brethren who suggest in the forum herein that keeping power on was stupid, go back and do some simple maths guys before making assertions of incompetence on the dead crews.

Boeing designs a system that has the authority to put in more than 3 times the certified out of trim demonstration requirement FAR 25.255(a), without condescending to tell the apparently deficient foreign devils that fly their magnificent product. It was Boeing and the FAA ODA system that oversaw the MCAS design, and it was Boeing who decided not to bother telling the crews of the system until it was necessary following the first blood spill. Following that, it was Boeing who still did not reinforce the extent that out of trim would give catastrophic problems to a crew in handling, it was up to a newspaper report to show that a competent crew would find the handling nearly impossible when doing a briefed simulation of the event.

Boeing and the FAA are stating, not even insinuating that the crews involved here, and for good measure adding collective guilt to all 'foreign" pilots are of lesser competency than good ol' boys. M'kay, For the record, having spent 40 years flying with US and foreign pilots, in military and airline operations, having flown all Boeings from the 727 to the 787 as well as the 320, 330, and 340, I have to say, there is more commonality than anything else, sorry Mr Trump's band of brothers, the crews from S%$t'ole are not that much different. Is US air travel safer than overseas? Generally, yes, but that says as much about the infrastructure and rules as it does on crew training. Is crew training of a lesser standard overseas? Well, before the CEO of Boeign goes on record on that matter, was he aware that Boeing is or has been the training provider for Ethiopian???? Seems kind of odd to bitch about standards, when the legally responsible party to the standards is.... Boeing. Comments have been made about the AZ214 at San Francisco, where the training organisation was again Boeing, who held contracts for training for KE and AZ for the last 20 odd years in various forms and names of entities, Alteon, Boeing etc.

A B767 just got parked awkwardly in Texas, there was no sudden cry from the S%$t'ole countries concerned with FAA standards... nope, not a word, and nor should there have been.

Over the years I have flown with F15, F16 F22 and A10 pilots, some are great, most are good, some I would not let near a Cessna 150 without supervision. I have flown with Ethiopian pilots, and in fact the absolute best instructor I have ever seen work a simulator was an Ethiopian. Back in the day, the red necks from the usual countries, both sides of the equator would be disparaging with the national pilots and most other foreign pilots, however would fawn over the Ethiopian instructor, he was that good. Two of the best instructors I have had on helicopters were not US, they were Japanese, and I cherish the training they gave me. The next one of note on choppers was a poor little french farm boy from Guadaloupe, and he was and is exceptional. On the Boeing aircraft, without any doubt the best instructors I have ever had didn't come from Seattle, they were oddly almost uniformly Zoroastrians, The most knowledgeable airbus pilot I have ever worked with was a refugee from Iran, and he had a better knowledge base on the aircraft than the TP's that I was also working with at the same time. I don't mind flying with US pilots, I do not however see a great divide between them and the rest of the world, nor in fact do I see much difference between airline operation in audit of European airlines, Asian airlines, North and South American airlines, when conducting partner airline audits. In accident investigation, I have seen people of all skin colour and backgrounds do odd things occasionally with bad results. The US pilot contingent in that group had their share of odd ball events, more or less in keeping with the great unwashed from the S%$t'ole countries that are suggested to be incompetent.

Overall, I am hardly surprised that the OEM and the NAA of the disgrace that is the saga of MCAS are striking out, but they are off base with their assertions. The OEM is in danger of angering their customer base by such comments, and it is not going to add to their bottom line, rather it may well detract. Personally, as a stinking foreigner, albeit with pink skin, I would not buy a Boeing product by choice given the Trump like comments made on the competency of foreign pilots. The foreign airlines have a choice of products to acquire, and having flown more or less all of the offerings, the competition is competent, and comes without the racist bigoted comments of recent reports.

Take out the rhetoric and racism, and fix your plane guys. Suggest that you test your products with the intent of 25.255(a) not just the inadequate words that have so grossly failed us, the pilots and the passengers who pay for the purchase of your product. The aviation world was sharply awoken to the difference between certification standards and the perceived safety that flows from that by the AA587 loss. (it is interesting to note that no bigoted, disparaging comments were made on the pilot of that flight, nor on the pilots of AA965, AA1572, DL191 etc... just sayin'....)

Hofstede discusses the differences between cultures that do have some effect in the operation of a crew, however, this problem was a fundamental flying capability problem, and Boing and the FAA are hardly winning hearts and minds by their comments, coming hot on the heel of the Colgan debacle, Comairs efforts in Kentucky, and the B767 parked in the bayou. The MD11 at RJAA was dispalying a shiny USA flag on the tail...



P.S., the FAA has good people in it, most fighting the system above them, in TAD, FSDOs at and various other acronyms, such as ACO and MIDO's. As a standard, having had professional licenses in 10 different countries, the FAA is not of any particular standout quality in their requirements or process. The FAA happens to be big and that is about the sum of it.

P.P.S. When is a full, honest investigation into the airworthiness of all of the B737NGs built with non compliant structure going to occur? It is hardly the behaviour of a first world nation to sack the QA auditors that brought that to light, that smacks of a 3rd world S%$t'ole type country response in itself.

P.P.P.S. the B767 Captain off the Comorros was a heroic person (ET961). He was being hit over the head with a damn fire axe as he ditched an aircraft without engines against that level of distraction. Sully and Jeff at least were not being accosted when they demonstrated their professionalism on the Hudson.

Bigotry is demeaning to all.



https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.ch...-blames-pilots

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/after-two-faulty-boeing-jets-crash-the-trump-administration-blames-foreign-pilots/2019/05/15/e940a692-774e-11e9-b3f5-5673edf2d127_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9b2b63241a64

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...7-max-crashes/

Last edited by fdr; 18th May 2019 at 10:56.
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