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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:21
  #895 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
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Originally Posted by GBV
CI crashed two A306s during go around. I never read the report on the crash in Taipei but in the Nagoya crash the FO definitely pushed the TOGA levers and engaged the AP shortly afterwards. They tried to continue the approach but didn’t realized the AP was engaged. The fight went on for a while until they finally disengaged the AP. However the stab had moved to full nose up and we all know what happened next. Out of curiosity, it was exactly 25 years ago...





CI140 had the AP engaged in the GA 13 seconds after the inadvertent TOGA selection, but the pilot was not aware of that fact, and was forcing the yoke against the AP resulting in the excessive backtrim case. The TOGA engagement was accidental by the handling pilot.

The Nagoya flight was off a stable approach, but had the anomaly of the accidental TOGA triggering, and the subsequent engagement of the AP which the pilot fought against.

The Taipei A300-622R accident, CI676 was slightly different. It came off an unstable approach where the aircraft was high, 7,000' @ 16nm, which would have been manageable, but increased the workload. The crew disconnected the AP and shortly thereafter did a GA manually flown. The pitch up with full thrust ended up at 41 degrees nose up before any nose down elevator was applied, and trim was applied nose down 6 seconds later. At the top of the zoom climb, the crew achieved 42.5 degrees nose up, roll excursions laterally of 48.5 degrees right, a minimum recorded speed of 43KCAS at 2751'. Thrust was slightly reduced, and the nose lowered finally going to 45 degrees nose down, following a 79 degree left roll excursion. Last data was at 136RA (uncorrected for pitch) 599'PA, 237KCAS, 18 degrees nose down, pulling 2.2g and near wings level.

In the 90's there was a spate of wild rides on the 300-600 and the 310 with spectacular displays put on in Moscow and in Paris by visiting aircraft. Boeing's partial thrust GA (targeted rate of climb) is less likely to get the drivers out of sorts, and some bus users implemented a soft GA procedure which led to the wild ride GA at Melbourne of an A320 of an AUS carrier where the guys essentially did a downwards going GA, and missed planet earth by not much. At low weights, the application of full thrust on underslung engines will get the attention of the crew, with a considerable trim change requirement to be managed, or not. The or not gets mentions in the funny pages. Getting out of trim is not a Max8 issue alone, it is an issue with all of these aircraft, and it is a part of the cyclic matrix that is deficient in its practice. The SLF's prefer we don't practice en route, so there are limited occasions for the crew to practice AP and manually flown GA's.

CI140 more or less vertically parked adjacent to the runway at RJBB. it was nowhere near a recovery in the time and space available, the wreckage distribution was more or less within the planform of the aircraft.

Last edited by fdr; 3rd May 2019 at 04:00.
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