Old 27th Mar 2019, 20:32
  #14 (permalink)  
sabenaboy
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Third planet from the sun
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by Small cog
Latirn
if you have had an approach and cannot get the required visual reference at DA/DH for r/w 16 (1.1nm from the threshold), then I think you are unlikely to achieve anything by trying to circle (or visual approach either). There circling procedures that specify that the circling starts at or after passing the r/w threshold. However, those I have flown also require that visual contact with specific landmarks be maintained while turning ‘downwind’ and up until r/w threshold becomes visible again.

Sabenaboy
Your not familiar with OLBA are you? Steep rising ground to the east and south that you don’t want to take liberties with. The OP posed the question that what if the r/w wasn’t seen until starting the go around; vis must be bad eh? Aside the no-no of thinking “it’s a good idea to stop the missed approach and position visually down wind”, just how far will your turn downwind take you from the airfield? If the OP has failed to see the r/w at 788 ft & 1.1 nm, what chance have YOU got by flying a visual circuit. And how would you plan you position your aircraft for base/final? You don’t want to be flying through the c/l at OLBA.

The circling approach is perhaps the most challenging manoeuvre the pilot is asked to fly. Some airlines have even prohibited their crews from flying them. They need to be well planned and brief, not a last minute decision. In the case in question, the usual procedure would be for the right hand seat pilot fly and maintain visual contact. Is your RHS pilot up to speed on flying circling approaches/ visual circuits in poor visibility?

As for scraping around low level in poor visibility over the sea without seurface features to aid you to getting where you want to go ... that’s just unprofessional and asking for trouble.
Small cog
The OP poster did not ask if it was wise to fly the scenario he was describing, he was asking about legality:
Originally Posted by Lantirn
So the question arises, is it legal to execute the VOR DME 16, maintain altitude at circling minimums and when visual with the runway, when above the airport at the circling minimums, maneuver the aircraft to position for right hand downwind 16 and land at 16?

Set aside the airmanship which is really obvious that you are taking a big risk doing a circling in these conditions...the conversation is only for the sake of the legality.
Talking about European regulations.
And I had already said:
Originally Posted by sabenaboy
Well, I'm not familiar with OLBA, but I looked at the charts.
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It's not a legal requirement to have the rwy in sight at all times
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Easa requires a 800 m RVR for visual approaches, and you must be able to keep visual separation from terrain. (It's not a legal requirement to have the rwy in sight at all times.)
So, yes, I would think it's LEGAL to perform a 'visual approach'. Would it be wise and safe to do it if you wouldn't have the rwy in sight at 800' during a straight in approach?
That's an other question? I wouldn't be trying it, but maybe, just maybe, somebody who is thoroughly familiar with the airport and the obstacles around it could do it safely.
So, I think it's pretty obvious that the OP and myself are well aware of the risks involved in circling or visual approaches in low vis conditions. We are talking about legality here, not airmanship. Why do you find it necessary to start lecturing us about that?
I just reacted to you correcting me for saying that it's not a legal requirement to have the rwy in sight at all times during a visual approach in EASA rules.
I provided proof of what I claimed and you were wrong about that.
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