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Old 1st Mar 2019, 16:13
  #46 (permalink)  
Ebbie 2003
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 351
Luc Lion et al.

Logging flight time is valuable consideration for some but maybe not for others.

A PPL hour building towards a commercial license = valuable consideration.

A PPL not building hours yes he has "fun" flying he adds to his hours but is it valuable consideration - well yes, if he says like to fly six hours a month and if I fly this chap I will do my six hours but this will be two of them and so I have benefitted to the tune of two hours I have four hundred quid in my pocket I wouldn't otherwise have, or maybe this month I fly eight hours.

On the car example - I agree other than if for driving my friend I am paid - in an accident if anyone is foolish enough to admit the arrangement the insurance would be invalidated.

Consider my previous question - I have an FAA reg airplane and an FAA PPL - I advertise but do not charge - Wingly I do not take the money, but of course the px have paid Wingly - is there an offense there (this is a real example by the way, I did it just to see how it works)?

Now what if I meet a couple take them flying, no charge, when we land they give me a couple of bags of Maltesers as a thank you - I am two bags of choccies up on the deal - is there something wrong - there was no agreement concerning Maltesers at the outset - what if there was? Another real example by the way.

Seems to me that semantic legalistic wriggling on the issue of cost sharing is a joke - you fly for a fee you are commercial - you need a commercial ticket - if it is your niece, your cousin, best mate, a stranger off the Internet it is irrelevant - the question is the fee. If I make a loss on the trip and charge a fee - also irrelevant - the issue it the fee (the benefit one gained) - valuable consideration is what the law calls it - hard to define but you know it when you see it.

I started the Wingly related Dodgy or Legit discussion a year or so ago - to me in the UK context it appeared dodgy - I was concerned then about low hours pilots (less than 100 total time) seeming to be offering what looked like commercial services.

If one chooses (FAA this, maybe someone can tell me if there are similar UK rules) to fly at a charity event - you know 15-minute trips around the lighthouse - the FAA Rules require a MINIMUM of 500 hours (up from 200 - so something going on there!), this 500+ hours can only do four such events in any year (some types only one); the local FSDO has to be notified a week in advance; no flights more than 25 miles from the airport and not to another airport; and there are other admin hoops. If instead of a charity/community event - I do the same things, same public, same airport - I can to it with 50 hours, notify no one, fly 200 miles from the airport and do it three times a week if I like. Something doesn't quite add up - the most interesting thing is the increase from 200 to 500 hours minimum time - something must have caused it no idea what.

Six or more year ago I was asked to fly in a charity event (yup, flights up around the lighthouse) I pointed to the rules (I had about 130 hours at the time and the minimum was at that time 200, and not time to notify the FSDO 1,500 miles away) - to this day I have not got over the scorn poured on me by the local flying club and aviation authority (here not US) for saying I couldn't as it would break the rules - I did rent them my airplane though and they had a guy do the trips who hadn't flown for a few of years had zero solo in that time - but did a few touch and goes with an instructor to get legal before flying all and sundry out to the lighthouse and back (a very nice 1000ft aaltitude diagonally across the international airport until reminded about the "circuit thing") - oh, and with the top latch on the Archer closed but not the main one, until I pointed out the exterior handle sticking out at ninety degrees, useful things binoculars!

While it was not Wingly - it appears that Mr. Sala fell foul of some form of dodgy arrangement - I expect some form of regulation to follow not sure what but there must be a reaction - I suggest something like the FAA charity/community rules would be a good start - well worth a read.
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