Paddopat/SNAREK
I suppose if the 'helpful' attitude had prevailed and the 'unhelpful' one suppressed (or oppressed) then CivilAir might have more allies today!
How long have you been in the dark; how many people work CB Approach at anyone time and how many work CS? Why do you allegedly get better service? Nothing to do with numbers is it? I think in the past 10 years there have been massive improvements in so called 'attitude'; everytime one of my ATC mates does something 'NASTY' they have to answer for it, so it's easier to not do it in the first place. If only Dick would leave us alone... I'm sick of his letters... I did my job and kept everyone alive and Dick writes my boss a letter saying that in the US the controller could have done X instead of Y, yet when you check with US mates they say no we couldn't.
In Cairns, despite VERY heavy traffic loads, I have never been denied a clearance. Clever ways are used to 'feed' me in and if I am flexible (like steep turns onto base for 12) then I am rarely delayed either.
However in Canberra, where there is often SFA traffic, I have been told 'remain OCTA' and then got grumpied at cos I did 'remain OCTA' by descending and popping up later on tower.
Why did they stay outside? Did they have your details? It can take up to 30 seconds to get them, if you’ve got no other entries to make, if you have then the 30 seconds starts again… If NAIPS determines that on profile or plan you avoid enroute airspace CTA it is probable that plan is totally suppressed. This means ring NAIPS in Brisbane and get the plan manually sent to TAAATS; up to 5 minutes, should take 60 seconds on average. Helping yourself to descent below the steps and calling the tower direct does nothing to helping you get into the system; in fact it could make it worse; got the details, call the pilot to give him/her the clearance, no response, where have they gone? SAR actions? more work… I suggest that you avail yourself of a tour of the ML centre next time you get this far south. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; you are clearly displaying little knowledge.
Your anecdotal story will not have a different result come 27 November? So how is removing all the Enroute class C going to help you, or help the big guys stay safe?
Chief Galah
We've all missed the boat. The posts on my topic "NAS apathy" from way back showed little interest or understanding of what was going foist upon us. And in typical fashion, the users, including Civilair, are bleating well after the horse has bolted.
I suspect you are right.
WALLEY2
You are absolutely right; why is it that Mike Smith is telling us DJ and QF are behind NAS? Where is their voice? Don’t forget the fact that they can’t come out and say it’s not safe, because if they do they can’t ground their fleet if it goes ahead can they?
THIS IS NOT PRETTY and is VERY WORRYING and CLOSE to BEING UNLAWFUL and NEGLIGENT
You said it brother.
4711
A question for the NAS proponents who claim that VFR aircraft have been unduly delayed and penalised by the current sytem: "How many times has a controller's response of 'remain outside control area' led to an actual delay in your flight?" I have used this phrase on many occasions as a 'paper stop', while a clearance and separation was formulated. I cannot remember a single occasion on which a VFR aircraft has been required to hold outside CTA or alter its track in any way. In all cases, a clearance has been issued prior to the CTA boundary.
I think this is a standard response based on an un-alerted or unexpected call; it doesn’t mean you won’t get one; it just means that in this particular micro second I can’t give it to you. Come 27 November this will not change. In the 13 years I have been an Enroute ATC I have never delayed an aircraft a clearance; perhaps it wasn’t provided at the planned level, but there always was a clearance issued. There is always an anecdotal story to counter the facts; but the facts remain that more than 95% of traffic (in ML Enroute) gets the clearance that they wanted (that means route and level); KPI issued last week.
'stand by for clearance'
The pain of this phrase would mean the time that you couldn’t clear them in, for what ever the reason, is the time they help themselves; because I thought I was going to get one.
In terms of redundancies, that would imply job reductions because of NAS. If anyone can identify to me
any single position which be reduced at any transitional point or end state then I'll listen, otherwise just keep dreaming; working Class E requires more ATC than class C, it's harder and you have more responsibilities with less information; combined sectors will effectively become a thing of the past. Should do wonders for efficiency.
This has nothing to do with closing Class D towers, so no jobs can be claimed from NAS at those locations, any other choices?
BIK, SNAREK? anyone?