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Old 9th Oct 2018, 20:41
  #7515 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Jetstream alpha View Post
Thanks for the info flyera359. Sad that it seems to have come to this.. Before at least Cathay was paying for your training so even though the salary wasn't great you'd still be better off than if you went self-funded, now this doesn't seem to be the case!

Just wanted to confirm that as an ab-initio pilot you would lose both HKPA and have to pay $16,000/mth for training costs? If this were the case then as a first year SO you would only take home $15,000/mth net, (from the handbook SO1 pay is ~$31,000/mth) surely Cathay can not expect that to be an attractive package for anyone as that won't even pay rent on even a 700 sq. ft. apartment... Also some people have been saying that they will only recoup 50% of training costs while you're saying it will be the whole thing. How much actually are the training costs in the end? I can't seem to find any reference to this in the documents you posted.
Hi Jetstream Alpha. Apologies so late on replying. I first must retract part of my statement as I now can't find where it says the HKPA will not be paid for the first 3 years in the contract. This info actually came from a letter sent by the managers to the cadets who are currently in Adelaide and who would have joined after Dec 1 (when the training completed). As is Cathay policy, even though you are under the company's control in Adelaide, you don't officially join and get a seniority number until your first day of duty in Cathay City. The management wrote a letter stating that the company would reverse the new Contract for all current cadets. The letter, written to ab initio courses, stated that they would receive the full HKPA and would be on COS08 or COS16 (our current conditions of service). Unfortunately I cannot share this letter with you, but I'm hoping someone here who has it would share it. I think the HKPA for new ab initio cadets is assumed, but after further review I don't see it in writing. I will do some digging and get back to you.

As for the training costs, I apologize if I made it seem as though it was all the training costs. It is actually only half and I should have made that clear in the last post. At a total training cost of around 1.2 mil HKD, half of that would be near $600,000HKD. However, there are two different contracts being presented, one for ab initio applicants and one for AE/TT applicants. For clarification, that is applicants with 250 hours and a commercial rating / applicants with a current ATPL and at least 1500 hours, respectively. On that contract, the target salary is $538,000 and is being presented to current applicants during their interviews, who fall into these categories. The difference in pay is around 16-17K/mo I believe. If you multiply both by 36 months (3 years) you get 576-612K HKD. Again, I have seen the documents, but cannot actually share them with you as I don't have the copies. I would hope that someone who has done an interview, and falls in these categories will share them online.

Further for everyone, I am seriously not trying to be a troll here who berates and belittles you for considering this opportunity. I know exactly how it feels to be looking for a job and see a carrier willing to pay you, while you fly in a wide body aircraft. Anyone from North America, Australia, and Europe knows that this life is not normal when starting your career. However, upon reading the contract again, I beg all of you to please look at the wording very carefully and compare them to other airlines, even if it is an airline you are not yet able to apply for. More than our current contract, so many areas end with as Cathay deems fit. For those of you who don't know this company, and I imagine that is a majority seeing as it is a cadet pilot forum, there has never been an increase to a contract when that wording existed. The company has always seen fit to decrease based on the current market. When times are good, your contract stays the same. When times are bad, the contract is threatened and a new contract is made for future employees. Such is the case with COS99 --> COS08 --> a temporary COS16 ---> and now COS18. The only difference is in COS18 most sections end with as the company sees fit / deems necessary/ under review from time to time. Negotiations are completely written out, and it states that such changes will be "binding on such officer".

Furthermore check out the Trade Union Agreement in section 18.
The Company may, from time to time, enter into agreements with the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers’ Association or any other registered trade union representing the Company’s pilots. Such will not become part of the contractual terms of your employment unless otherwise expressly agreed with you in writing. The Company may, where appropriate, draw up policies to reflect its agreement with such trade union which will be notified to you.

Basically anything the union is currently fighting to preserve, will not affect anyone on COS18. Furthermore, any future negotiation outcomes will not be available to crew on COS18 unless specifically stated. To make it simple, unless stated by the company, the union can no longer fight for you. While there are many differing views on what a union can and cannot do, the fact that you have absolutely no representation unless the company sees fit should raise some concerns.

In the end, it is always your decision and I along with all other current members must respect that. I will say that this airline has sadly fallen from greatness, and is becoming a stepping stone airline. For those looking to join, get a wide body rating and the time, and get out, I think you are definitely headed in the right direction. I just hope and pray you know what you are signing up for in the interim.
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