PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Airbus Crosswind... "White Knuckled Landing"
Old 24th Sep 2018, 10:13
  #15 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by swh
Nothing wrong with that approach or go around with 40 kts of crosswind, no PIO as claimed.
The 737 with direct control to flight control surface and connected yokes produces better results.....
Mmmmmm. OK... The B737 images you show are pretty unpleasant. As a group we contend with the conditions reasonably well, but we also place a rod on our own backs.
Continuing approaches in conditions that are severe may not be what the punters are paying for. That is a peer pressure/normalisation/mission completion item, tied up with the financial needs of the companies. The punters are paying to go from A to B, rather than C, however they are also not paying for disneyland rides, where there is elevated risk of bad outcomes. Not casting nasturtiums, I've looked out the #2 window in a B74 to see the runway, and at 500' decided that there was no way the landing would end up without making a headline. In retrospect, even calling it quits at 500' wasn't that much fun for the people paying our salary on that evening.

Not a fan of the B737, Boeing makes some great flying planes, the B737 makes money for the airlines. Can't argue that. The Airbus down in the flare behaves like a real plane. In both cases, (and not shown in these videos anyway) wing down/slip doesn't work very well, more of a problem on the Airbus than any other, but in both cases, wing down on the approach results in more unstable flight paths than flying with drift until the flare, and then aligning the nose towards the end of the runway.

Mild PIO is not an issue on this approach, it becomes more prevalent with slipping flight. The A320 video is of interest only on the amount of time spent with drift on just above the ground, before the G/A was initiated. The crew are dealign with challenging conditions in the A320 video. My point is that getting down in the weeds and ending up in a position where the rudder isn't applied due to the conditions, probably indicates we are in the wrong place at that point. Back when London's Hyde Park fell over in storms, we drove a B74 into MAN RWY06 with a gusty 35Kt crosswind, which was fun until it wasn't. I got the plane to the runway with a reasonable setup, cockpit slightly upwind of the centerline for the alignment, and eased the power off to land, and was about to put in rudder when we got hit with a 60Kt crosswind gust. The good news is the gust assists align the aircraft into wind through directional stability, but the track went from straight down the runway to a recorded 15 degree downwind track. about a second later we touched down, but in that time I had thought about putting in into wind rudder... pretty ugly, doing a go around... not going to happen without touching down, or planting the aircraft. I planted the aircraft. and spent the next 10 minutes apologising to the rest of the crew who were still in fits of laughter. The passengers weren't. The company was happy we got there for the passengers. I think we should have stayed in bed, and defended the passengers rights more effectively. The B74 is a sweet handling crosswind aircraft. Much nicer than the B762, even the B763. The B777 is also a great crosswind aircraft, with a remarkably effective rudder. (there is one oddity with the B777 however, for the takeoff roll, aircraft will weathervane into wind and need down wind rudder to maintain alignment. The B777 does as well, but only above about 80Kts, below that, the aircraft has an out of wind tendency which can be seen in the data if any crew look at their FDM/QAR output data). Years later, looking at serious incidents on one particular type and airline, the aircraft was tearing up the MLG trunnions. The data analysis showed that the crew were routinely landing with high levels of drift on. In those cases, this was also happening on landings with relatively low crosswinds, but where the crews were flying slip, they were getting out of sorts, such that in a 7kt crosswind, they had full rudder applied, and the aircraft in a forward slip into the flare and touchdown. That was eventually resolved, and the training reinforced to comply with the OEM's TM guidance, de-crab in the flare or after establishing the landing attitude.
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