Originally Posted by
nigelh
I used to fly into Vanguard regularly and never considered it to be in a congested area or have any other problems getting in and out !!!! I was unaware that some “ expert” had no decreed it to be different.
i agree AnFi .... as I have said hundreds of times before ..... we have the rules and the rule makers we deserve because the industry is totally fragmented and run by spineless people . That’s why I dumped my UK license and do all my flying FAA . The CAA and all the AOC bollocks will soon strangle the last bit of breath out of the industry and that is why most flights are “ private “ .
And as far as the CAA are concerned (and anyone who checks the rule book) it is a congested area. A class one profile is almost impossible due to prevailing south westerly winds when Class 1 relies on landings and approaches being made into wind. The other ways for a CAT twin is either to be able to hover, OGE on one engine. A few can do that, not many, OR, Class 2 with exposure, floats, recording systems, risk assessments up the yard arm and CAA approval.
I used to go there twice a week, in a 15+kt south easterly the windshear over the buildings can be "interesting" at night in a South Westerly I went for hover OGE weights and a sideways on approach, turning into wind over the pad. I flew our CAA Check F flight in there a number of years ago and the CAA were happy with how I did it, but asked a lot of questions and went through my calculations very thoroughly.
Where you can come unstuck with the congested area rule is that some places look uncongested, but in terms of the letter of the law they are, and it doesnt matter what your license or registration says, in EASA land the rule applies, whether you're CAT, NCC, NCO, PVT, SPO, British registered, American registered or Albanian registered.
ANO Schedule 1 Article 2, page 125 applies:"Congested area" in relation to a city, town or settlement, means any area which is substantially used for residential, commercial, industrial or recreational purposes."
And Rule 5 states:Landing and taking off within congested areas and near open-air assemblies 5.—(1)An aircraft must not take off or land within a congested area of any city, town or settlement except— (a) at an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or (b) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome in accordance with the permission of the CAA. (2) An aircraft must not land or take-off within 1,000 metres of an open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons except— (a) at an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or (b) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA and with the written permission of the organiser of the assembly.
There seems to be a popular misconception that rule 5.1 only applies to CAT, NCC etc, it covers everyone, but CAT operators have a permission as part of the AOC to self authorise congested area flying, subject to keeping logs of use, surveying sites, and various other details which aren't onerous. therefore "self-authorising" for Vanguard and other London landing sites is not difficult and applying for permissions for privateers is made as easy as possible to encourage safe and legal use.
Roughly 30% of my annual flying is in and out of congested areas, all legally covered and as safe as possible. But taking Rule 5 into account, how many people are in the public areas near Vanguard at lunch time, or commuting time? the river is used for commerce and leisure, the Cutty Sark and the leisure areas around her are 1000m away.
A number of years ago ShyTorque and I brought up the subject of a landing at Leicester Racecourse, take a look at it on Google Earth, it is a classic case of a congested area, but I still land there regularly and find the odd R44 or 206, privately run, where the pilot believes the Congested Area Rule doesn't apply to him because he's private. Well it does apply, and in the event of an incident, he may well do a good job and not hurt anyone, but he's horribly exposed because he's actually operating illegally in the first place, when a permission is easy to get. The CAA do help the privateer, with such permissions, they bend over backwards sometimes to help, but there seems to be an impression in this country that we are very restrictive, when in fact we're not, try working on a heli-surface permit in France, or wizzing in and out of private sites in Germany, Denmark or the Netherlands. I know the US is a nirvanah for all forms of GA, but in the UK most operations are easier than the rest of Europe.
SND (awaiting incoming)