PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Deliberate faking of stalls in RAA Training in aircraft that won't stall
Old 2nd Aug 2018, 22:25
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Sunfish
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Assuming you are not kidding, I will attempt to answer you.

A RAA pilot underwent a flight review (for want of a better word in the RAA world) in an LSA. The instructor told the student that LSA (Light Sports Aircraft) have benign stall characteristics and all the ones he had instructed on just mushed gently straight ahead.
Said instructor then informed the student that because stall recovery was part of the flight review, he would demonstrate how to force the LSA to stall. With that he pulled the LSA into a steep climbing turn accompanied by a boot-full of rudder causing the LSA to skid into an extreme nose low and wing down situation. The instructor then used coarse control movements to recover from the steep dive and get the wings back to level. "That's how you can get an LSA to drop a wing and stall" sez the instructor.
Comment.
I don't know enough about the RAA to say that stall recovery training is in the RAA Syllabus for Training; but I assume it is, since the syllabus is basically aligned with CASA Flight Instructor Handbook. Regardless of the written word, it is surely considered poor airmanship to deliberately force any aircraft that is designed to have benign stall characteristics, into extreme attitudes involving application of full control movements to control limits in order to pretend it has stalled when in fact it has not.
In this case, the extreme attitudes did not stall the LSA at all; but were merely the end result of deliberate gross mishandling by the RAA flying instructor.
Begging the question of "deliberate mishandling" by the pilot, I too have experienced the benign stall characteristics of an Evector Sportstar LSA and gentle it can be - so gentle it needs to be demonstrated so that it can be recognised and recovered. BUT as Squawk says, if it is deliberately mishandled by a fool, or more likely as a result of an upset caused by turbulence ( it is light), or if the pilot loses situational awareness in cloud, it will bite and bite hard. it will drop a wing and when you pick that up, it will drop it on the other side. When an instructor demonstrated "benign" to me he damn near had us into the ground he was so thrilled with "'benign" which just goes to show when you make anything foolproof all you do is attract a bigger fool. God knows what the spin characteristics are like, I don't want to find out.

To put that another way, have you ever seen the film "gremlins"? The gremlin starts as a cute loveable fuzzy little animal and then........


The airframe loadings caused by gross mishandling cannot be ignored as some of these aircraft are lightly constructed and there is no way the next pilot to fly that aircraft will be able to tell if the aircraft has been over-stressed. In fact, that aircraft could fly for many more hours before something gives way. In any case it is probable that most pilots would agree that it is wrong to deliberately place any LSA into such extreme attitudes that would never normally occur in its service life, in order to simulate a stall characteristic that does not exist. If ever there was an example of the term "practicing bleeding" then this insane practice is a classic example.
You are wrong. These are not violent aerobatic manoeuvres but situations you would expect in the service life of the aircraft. The certification process (ASTM? JAR? EASA?) caters for this. Someone like DJPL might explain better.

The people that manage the RAA need to get their act in order and show some common sense and ban this potentially dangerous practice of faking a stall simply to meet a syllabus written by the RAA themselves.
If the RAA fail to act on this "training" then the result could eventually lead to a similar fatal accident to a Brumby LSA that crashed following a flat spin. That aircraft was being used for a first familiarisation flight of a student converting from general aviation to an RAA LSA. Investigation of the wreckage revealed the elevator was apparently found to be jammed in the full back position. It is not known whether this was the cause of the flat spin or as a result of the impact with the ground. What was known was that LSA had earlier experienced a jammed aileron which was fortunately noticed by a student pilot when checking the controls for full free movement as part of his before take off check.
You are misguided and in any case wrong. Aircraft are fitted with control stops designed to preclude jamming at extremes of travel. Are you a pilot? Getting to be a play the player rather than play the ball comment. If you wish to be quite this pointed, it would be appropriate to be able to substantiate the comment ? I know who Tee Emm is and he is a very experienced pilot - JT
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