Thanks Nutloose, I did see that page and that was what reminded me of TCW. Downsizer, is retention due to the job being rubbish/poor morale, or folk just leaving for better pastures? I'm not trying to put my nephew off, he actually wants to do avionic stuff, but the RAF are pushing this at the moment, and I couldn't tell him what this was. I can tell him about some of the stuff I got up to though.