PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Pasadena Police - two OH-58s make contact
Old 16th Mar 2018, 15:00
  #134 (permalink)  
[email protected]
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 10,330
Received 623 Likes on 271 Posts
You don't need to try to question my numbers on this one, as I am sitting looking at the official wreckage dimension sheet from the base.
Oh I really think I do

Lets just look at what the NTSB report actually says
WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION

On-scene documentation was conducted. The accident had been recorded on video. The recorded video showed that N96BM was moved out of the hangar toward Pad 1. The helicopter was parked to the west and outside of the painted square that denoted Pad 1, which placed N96BM in-between Pad 1 and Pad 2 facing south.

The distance between the outside of Pad 1 to the outside of Pad 2 was 33 feet, as measured by a total station provided by the Pasadena Police Department.

After the impact, both helicopters came to rest upright, with minimal displacement/movement of each helicopter. N911FA came to rest facing toward the northeast, and mostly inside of Pad 2; a portion of the aft skid came to rest outside of the Pad 2 box. N96BM remained to the west of Pad 1.

The transmission and main rotor blades separated from N96BM, and came to rest adjacent to the helicopter. The main rotor blades of N911FA separated from the transmission, and came to rest about 10 feet forward and to the left of the helicopter; directly behind N96BM. The transmission for N911FA remained attached to and inside the helicopter in its relative normal position. One main rotor blade from each helicopter, where they initially contacted each other, came to rest near the hangar, forward of N96BM, and near a chain link fence, behind N96BM.

During the on-site examination, the distance between the two parking pads as well as the distance between Pad 1 and the fuel farm was noted. Measurement of the separation distance between Pad 1 and Pad 2 was measured as 33 feet. The distance between Pad 1 and the fuel farm was measured as 24 feet. According to AC 150/5930-2C Heliport Design section 214 titled Helicopter Parking, parking pads size depends on the number and specific size of the helicopter that will be accommodated at the facility. The minimum distance between parking pads should be one-third the diameter of the main rotor blades. Additionally, under subsection e. fueling (2) it stated not to locate fueling equipment in the TLOF (touchdown and liftoff area), FATO (final approach and takeoff area), or safety area, maintaining a distance of one-half rotor diameter clearance from objects, and if that was not practical at the existing field to install long fuel hoses.
The square pad is approximately the same width as the skids (either 6 ft 4 in or 6 ft 8 in depending on which skid type is fitted) and the distances are quite clearly stated (first sentence in bold) from the outside edge of the square pad to the outside edge of the next one (33 Ft).

So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to acknowledge that the centre to centre distance is 33 ft PLUS the width of the painted square.

Even if we say the squares are only 6 ft across, that means the centre to centre distance is 39 ft.

The rotor diameter of the OH 58 is 35 ft 4 in so with both helicopters correctly positioned in the centre of their squares, there is an 3 - 4 ft clearance between the tips.

The report then says
The minimum distance between parking pads should be one-third the diameter of the main rotor blades
that is clearly nonsense as that would mean the pads could be 12 ft apart!!!

It seems more than reasonable to surmise that what they meant was that the clearance between 2 helicopters rotors on adjacent pads should be a minimum of 12 ft.

So, if the squares are 7 ft across and the distance between the outside edges of the pads is 33 ft you get a centre to centre distance of 40 ft - giving 5 ft clearance. Its not the 12 ft specified but neither is it 2 ft.

It isn't easy to say with more accuracy but the squares appear to be as wide, if not slightly wider than the width of the skids so they must be at least 6 ft wide and probably 7 ft. If they are wider than that - which is entirely possible, the clearance gets bigger - a 10 ft square would give 8 ft clearance.

OK Nubian - enough flannel - show how you get to 2 ft clearance based on what is actually in the report as opposed to what you think is in the report.

And are you honestly telling me that you believe they operated with a 2 ft rotor to rotor clearance for many years without anyone ever questioning it????

Last edited by [email protected]; 16th Mar 2018 at 16:52.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline