OK Pontious. Let's play.
Originally Posted by
Pontius
So, let me get this right, Keg.
To start with you claim the BA aircraft was about 1:45 ahead of schedule. I've done that route more times than I care to mention and have never been more than 5 minutes before the curfew. That time has, of course, been rectified by slowing down or ATC vectors to arrive after the curfew. Your suggestion is more than 'quite early' and makes me suspicious of your story.
Nope. They were about 10 ahead of schedule. They were permitted to land before the 0600 curfew. I think Sked blox is 0515 for the arrival I'm talking about. Our ETA ex DXB was 0415 but a half hour delay meant we could adjust speed enroute pretty easily to ensure we weren't going to land before 0500 as is permitted for SYD winter ops. Unfortunately the tailwind was never less than our 15 knot certified limit let alone the 9-11 performance limit as we burned off fuel in the holding pattern..... except for the landing clearance given to the BA crew.
But it appears you're calling me a liar off the basis of me saying a BA aircraft was arriving in SYD at 0500 in May? Really?
Originally Posted by
Pontius
You then base most of your maligning on the basis of forecasts and only refer to the actual winds once (in a disparaging way).
Did you read my follow up post? Every TTF I looked at in the preceding 4-5 hours was in excess of 15 knots tailwind.
Originally Posted by
Pontius
"We can take a knot or two more than that" is clearly totally unacceptable......IF it happened.
Calling me a liar? Again? Suggesting I made it up? I can probably look up the crew list and find three others who will back me home on that one. Heck, not sure how long ATC keeps it's tapes but I've still got the date in my log book.
Originally Posted by
Pontius
You then tell us that ATC reported a downwind component of 15 knots i.e. NOT out of limits. Your claim that they "played the game" is entire supposition and only serves to insult the professionalism of ATC AND the BA crew. If ATC tell me the tailwind is 15 knots then I'm going to believe what they're telling me and I don't assume they're making it up in order that I can get in.
Yep. It is a supposition about ATC. I've been around long enough to see TEMPO TS disappear off a critical TTF for a period of 30 minutes to facilitate the arrival of someone on skint fuel (unless the TS was directly over the airfield at the time). Like Snakecharma I've heard of viz and wind and cloud base be adjusted by Aussie and other ATC units to conveniently match a limit or permit an approach. BKN003 becomes BKN004 as the latter doesn't require an alternate, etc.
I'm actually quite happy to insult the professionalism of that BA crew on that approach. I know what I heard.
Originally Posted by
Pontius
IF the BA crew later reported the tailwind was 22 knots on landing then that, too, is unacceptable and they should have gone around. However, your claims on timing and the 'guess' that ATC were feeding them a line makes me suspect the rest of your story.
All I can say is that ATC told us that BA15 reported the downwind as 22 knots 'approaching the flare'.
Originally Posted by
Pontius
However, even if it is all true, then I can guarantee this was truly a 'rogue' crew and does not reflect the standards of the airline or the rest of their colleagues. I do not know of ANYONE who would exceed the limitations, outside of an emergency situation that couldn't avoid doing so, and it is certainly not endemic of the BA culture. The same cannot be said of "we know better than everyone" attitude that exists in a good number of Australian pilots both at home and overseas and the subject of this thread.
For the record I didn't suggest all BA crews were the same. I just reminded myself after hearing this BA crew did this that I was glad I worked for the mob I do.
I note though that you infer again here that I'm telling porkies. Perhaps you should have just said 'liar, liar, pants on fire' and be done with it.
Interestingly I'm not sure we've had a thread about the pains in the backside poms can be. I flew with a bunch of them in my early days in Qantas. Complete dills. Luckily I'm smart enough to know that it's just individuals and not tar en entire demographic with the same brush just because of the actions of a few clowns.