PPRuNe Forums


Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th Jan 2017, 06:43   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 402
What's the deal with Cathay DE FO recruitment. Is it genuine ?

Hi all.

I applied to Cathay for a direct entry FO position. I've just been invited to attend a selection for second officer transition training in HK. I must admit I know very little about Cathay but I'm not interested in an SO position.
Is the DEFO thing just a gimmick to get people to apply and then force them in to an SO position ?
buzzc152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 07:11   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: In the Smog, but not for much longer!
Age: 42
Posts: 34
They have had candidates in the sim recently I heard so yes. Best to move thread to Fragrant Harbour, good luck.
CXKA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 23:47   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,203
I don't think you'll find too much positive news regarding Cathay on Fragrant Harbour. The place appears to have completely fallen from grace over the years and Hong Kong is undoubtably one of the most expensive and probably most polluted cities in the planet. CX was such an aspirational place at one time. A shame.
Callsign Kilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 00:14   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: HK
Posts: 108
Listen to Callsign Kilo !

It is no longer the place it once was...join, and it won't take very long before you are screaming to leave. What's the expression? Forewarned is ...
A3301FD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 04:55   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Here & there
Posts: 674
I doubt that it's a gimmick and they can't 'force' you into anything. Do you meet their requirements - experience commensurate with age and all that??
BuzzBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 08:07   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: FL380
Posts: 17
Forgive me if I am missing something here but at nearly 40 years of age surely there are better options than moving to Hong Kong to join a fading airline?
whitemonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 08:45   #7 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 0
Depends on your frame of reference. 140k and 13-14% tax will lure plenty of folks from LCCs, and anywhere else that isn't a legacy carrier.

If you're trawling around Europe on €2200 a month, or you're one of the thousands of Canadian or Australian pilots that will never see their countries only 2 airlines, etc, etc.

There is no shortage of applicants, that's for sure.
McNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 10:35   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 606
Quote:
I don't think you'll find too much positive news regarding Cathay on Fragrant Harbour. The place appears to have completely fallen from grace over the years and Hong Kong is undoubtably one of the most expensive and probably most polluted cities in the planet. CX was such an aspirational place at one time. A shame.
Quote:
It is no longer the place it once was...join, and it won't take very long before you are screaming to leave.
Oh dear.

Sounds like you'll need every penny of your 100k plus, just to live?? Just wear a mask for the pollution? Great place to visit for a weekend though. Especially if your employer's paying.
Quote:
There is no shortage of applicants, that's for sure.
As with most legacy carriers! The MOST revealing factor, would be the attrition rate (loss of pilots to other airlines.) at these employers. Now that WOULD be an interesting read!
4468 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 12:00   #9 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
As with most legacy carriers! The MOST revealing factor, would be the attrition rate (loss of pilots to other airlines.) at these employers. Now that WOULD be an interesting read!
Correct. I'm not sure what your point is? I was answering a question made in the post prior to mine. As usual, you've gone off on an irrelevant tangent.

On to your points; If you need 100,000 to live (which would make you a pretty poor financial decision maker), then at least that leaves 45 grand to stash at the end of the year.

My point is, having the same take home pay as a very senior BA LH captain as a year 1 FO will attract plenty of people from all walks of the industry. If you're struggling with that, then I'm not sure what to say. I'm not encouraging people to join, and I'm not saying it's the bees knees. You're either playing the idiot, or you are one.

As for attrition - about 35 in 2016. Pilot workforce about 3300. What's the revelation you're so excited about?
McNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 13:32   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 606
This on the fragrant harbour section today: (A section well worth a read, for anyone thinking of going.)
Quote:
It's not going to get better. They just don't care. They'll burn it to the ground before they EVER capitulate to us. Is anyone paying attention to the exodus going on??? I watched Titanic the other night and after shock, reality finally set in that Titanic is in fact sinkable and is sinking right now. Time to get off, beat the ques elsewhere, and not drown.
I dunno, maybe they should double the money?? It looks like a place stuffed full of unhappy people who just don't want to be there. Golden handcuffs perhaps?
4468 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 23:35   #11 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 0
When the same three people keep making the same point, it doesn't make it correct.

So, I'm all ears regarding the exodus. As far as I can tell, attrition of 1% is comfortably the lowest in the expat flying world.

So, back to the post you derailed... who would come? Plenty. QED.

30-odd DEFO places and nearly 3000 applicants.
McNugget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 07:01   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Generally around 30W
Posts: 32
Cathay sounds like a pretty good deal to me, I don't know what those on Fragrant are complaining about.

New entrant FO on 140,000 a year before allowances with no overtime. With 18 days off a month to go home and what, say 3 maybe 4 trips a month that's not many nights one would have to spend in HKG in a 1500 sqft flat on the 20th floor.

Lets face it, that is one hell of a better deal than they were offering 30 years ago.

A quick question.... why are the SO's not being upgraded to FO?
Capt Ecureuil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 08:14   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 157
Capt Ecureuil,

18 off a month is a bit generous, maybe that is the case for some SOs.
Guys on the 777 do get more days off due to the nature of ULH flying but the 777 will start to pick up a few more regional routes with the 350 starting europe and NA. The current recruitment drive is for the 330 and 747 as there would be a riot if external guys were taken directly on to the 777.

Definitely not a better deal from 30 years ago, with housing you could afford to buy a place, now you cannot. Getting kids in to school will be a nightmare and cost thousands and in some cases hundreds of thousands for deposits.

Hong Kong is an expensive place, 1L of bad milk will set you back almost 5US, it may seem like you are getting paid a lot but the money laves your account almost as quick as it went in.

It will be hard to get home on an airbus regional or 74 roster, airbus guys are working max days with maybe 8 days off in some cases, definitely not all in a row.

747 guys spend a lot of time flying through the night, holed up in anchorage with plenty of roster changes. Ive heard of some guys head off to NA and not return to HK for 10 days with only doing 40 hrs of flying.
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 12:14   #14 (permalink)

PPRuNe Secret Agent!



Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,554
Quote:
With 18 days off a month to go home
I would add commuting or frequent trips home to Europe to/from Asia is not sustainable, I did it for 18 months with a long haul roster - resulted in me gaining chronic fatigue and insomnia, took quite a bit of time to sort me out out! Never again...was the beginning of the end for and me and this crazy life - always better off staying home!!!
JB007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2017, 06:10   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Asia
Posts: 144
You'd have no idea what you're getting yourself into at CX. A big announcement is forthcoming and the news will be bad. CX is in a very big downward spiral and I personally do not think it will survive. The word is out amongst the passengers and employees about how bad it really is at CX now.

The training departement, the third floor, are complete and utter nutters! You've never experienced anything like it. CX has around an 75-80% command failure rate and KAs is close to 100%! ARE YOU READING THIS???

Rostering is nothing but shameful. The project manager for the new rostering program just quit. Dealing with CX is not something most will tolerate for long anymore. They have no more clout and the world has figured out how corrupt these people are. You will not be getting eighteen days off a month.

Three pilots died on the freighter alone this year, one right on the airplane! Are you hearing me now???

Our pass travel is atrocious, not at all transparent, costly, and is run by a complete idiot. They do not want you on the airplane and if you do get on, you will pay! Better off on full fare and on someone else. You'll get treated better too. CX has nothing but disdain for its staff.

Hong Kong is being overrun by the locusts that are mainlanders. This once vibrant city will turn into another mainland city with disgust of epic proportions.

If you have not really paid attention to anything i've said, or read on Fragrant Harbour, then waste your time and give it a try. The morale is so bad that alone will convince you you made a mistake.

That quote about it not getting better, they don't care, is from me! Please trust me and run the other way. Watch "The Revenant". It's about as accurate a story about working for CX there is.

Do not ever say you were not warned.
The Visionary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2017, 07:02   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 239
I guess then other airlines like HKE or HKA are out of question !!!!
volare_737 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2017, 10:49   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 606
As I said elsewhere:
Quote:
I've said all through my flying career, the best paid jobs tend to be dangerous, boring, or insecure! One way or another there are usually very good reasons why employers need to pay big money!
I guess I should have added: Jobs with absolutely nothing else whatsoever to offer, also have to pay big money, to attract/keep anyone.

But in many of those cases, it can get to the stage where it's just not enough. You only live once, and there are no pockets in shrouds!

In this business Nirvana is probably to be found flying a floatplane round the Indian Ocean for beer money.

What a mess.
4468 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2017, 22:24   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a jet that's not so shiny anymore.
Posts: 1,245
...and you'll need that 'good deal' (do an internet search on the cost of living, housing and education in Hong Kong) because a new-joining DEFO will be on the bottom of a seniority list of approximately 3,200 pilots which will affect command training and staff travel priority. Commands are running at far less than 100 per year. Do the arithmetic. The airport is becoming slot-limited and Cathay Pacific is a one trick pony in its only hub. Crew - management relations could be described as 'poisonous'.

And among the SOs, on their own crappy deal waiting for their upgrades, you will be about as welcome as a bacon sandwich at a bar mitzvah.
Captain Dart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2017, 00:08   #19 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: london
Posts: 2
Capt Ecureuil and McNugget can i please clarify that the starting salary at CX for DEFO is 140k??
dilbert747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2017, 17:39   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Generally around 30W
Posts: 32
No idea, it's just what McNugget has told us all.

Actually that must be take home pay if as he says "the same take home pay as a very senior BA LH captain as a year 1 FO" .... I have a feeling that may be a little fib.
Capt Ecureuil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 18:20.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1