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Old 9th May 2014, 22:38   #21 (permalink)
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Not sure about those Easy V BA salary figures, they seem considerably light for BA. They certainly don't include allowances or the FPA payment which could be considered part of basic these days. Roughly 20k PA down for a mid range long haul FO. Is it based on short haul pay scales? That's not a realistic profile in BA.
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Old 9th May 2014, 23:01   #22 (permalink)
 
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Well would someone be able to give us the Ba pay scale and outline the extras? I got some planning to do!!!
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Old 10th May 2014, 00:49   #23 (permalink)
 
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Easy also has:


5% annual bonus on basic after 3 years
10% annual bonus on basic after 5 years
15% annual bonus on basic after 10 years


I think that will push up the easy earnings a fair bit (not to mention the other bonuses and share awards).


I know where my better half wants me to stay.
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Old 10th May 2014, 02:36   #24 (permalink)
 
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Sorry, but I too don't agree with the maths suggested. I took the plunge and left easyjet to join BA, and so am privy to the finer details of the pay scales of both outfits.

In addition to what has been mentioned already, there is a duty pay per hour away from base at BA. This is not fully taxable and results in roughly 500-800 pounds a month extra in take home pay (generally more on long haul than short haul).

My father in law is an experienced treasurer and chartered accountant. Prior to joining BA he crunched all the numbers for me (basic pay, fixed allowances, duty pay, bonuses, varying tax rates for different pay types, 34 point pay scale, higher pay for long haul vs short haul at BA, pension tax breaks etc etc), assuming a command at easyjet at circa 5 years, and BA at 25 years. This was based on DEP pay scales. With everything taken into account the career earnings came out very similar. Easyjet was roughly 5% ahead. That said, the current BA pension for new joiners pays in roughly 6 or 7 % more at BA than easyjet. So there's really not much in it.

Finance is only one part of the decision about whether BA is right for you. Frankly, you are not going to be on the breadline at either company. I agree with those that suggest it is not a clear cut decision these days but, if it is something that matters to you, I would say that I feel healthier and much less tired since I joined BA from easyjet. Consequently, I am much happier in my job and enjoy it more.

Horses for courses and all that.

Good luck to all those who decide to give the selection a go.

Last edited by EllanVannin; 10th May 2014 at 02:59.
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Old 10th May 2014, 06:25   #25 (permalink)
 
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Come on NigelOnDraft I appreciate this forum is more often than not doom and gloom but are we really now suggesting that BA short haul is about to be killed off? If that's the case then I'd just have to roll with the punches and go out to the sandpit I guess, not ideal but not a personal disaster. You'll do yourself into an early grave speculating about all the negative things that could happen to you!
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Old 10th May 2014, 07:55   #26 (permalink)
 
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Hi Plastic

Sorry for trying to give you some advice

At my point in my BA career, it's largely irrelevant. But I just fly with Airbus P2s, some of whom query their decision to join BA - and they've been in say 3 years.

BA SH is at risk of being "killed off", in BA pilot terms. Naturally not in brand terms. I suggest if you are serious about joining BA, you ask about the recent GMM and what was said about the BA SH career risks.

Whilst if either LGW or BA SH were "killed off" (e.g. wound down) I am sure BA/BALPA would try to avoid CRs, the processes followed would be in strict seniority order. A 2015 join date based on getting to BA LH for commuting / tax reasons might not be a great place to be 1500 people ahead of you in the queue for LH, and retirements running at say 10pa, is a long wait!
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Old 10th May 2014, 09:05   #27 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I believe it is good news that BA have decided to open recruitment again for DEP (all be it type rated candidates only), I am curious as to what might happen to those of us who are still ‘on hold’ for an interview from the last round of DEP recruitment conducted in 2012? My application is still active. I do not hold an airbus rating. Thoughts?
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Old 10th May 2014, 09:31   #28 (permalink)
 
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You mentioned 10 retirements/other losses per year out of a total of 4000 pilots? Are you trying to tell me BA has an attrition rate of 0.25%? Forgive me if I've missed something
It is in that order, albeit actual rate is hard to determine, and whether due the pilot's own choice, or "other factors" I suspect 10 is an under-estimate, but it is still tiny hence my caution over flying beyond 65

What might also be interesting is that there are approx as many "retirements" from P32L as there are "old f*rts" off LHS LH. Which partly accounts for the "panic" recruitment, and also might say something about life in BA as P32L - before the outcome of the WC talks, SH "business review" and round 2 of the SH bmi savings in 2015
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Old 10th May 2014, 09:54   #29 (permalink)
 
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It is all very well number crunching how much more you might make in one airline over another, but money is not everything in life.
I've been in this industry over 20 years and I find the happiest pilots are those that have good t&c, thats a given. But added to that, variety, choice and lifestyle play a big part in overall satisfaction. If you are looking at your whole career, working for an airline where you can change fleet, LH/SH and role is almost equally important to remuneration. For this reason, BA, while acknowledging that it is not the gold standard that it once was, is the best bet for a pilots career, IMHO.
I think it is also fairly pointless to predict who will be solvent in 25 years time, who, 25 years ago, would have predicted an industry like we have today?
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:19   #30 (permalink)
 
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I doubt that many pilots have a career as long as 40 years. Given a pilot work force of 3,500 that would suggest an average retirement of approx. 90 per year. The change of retirement date from 55 to 65 and the slow down it caused should work its way through the system very soon and retirements from age alone can be expected to return to normal in the near future. Sadly there are other factors such as death in service and severe illness that claim a few every year. Some pilots do leave to pursue other careers or change airline.

Plastic787, did any pilots actually get laid off by Flybe and when are they planing to recruit?
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:45   #31 (permalink)
 
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101325

In a word, nothing. I was in the last DEP hold pool and we were told that after our 18 month tenancy expired we would have to reapply and go through the entire process again. The last guys sank in the pool towards the middle of last year however, as I understand, a few Airbus guys were plucked at the turn of year for LGW. I don't see guys 'on hold' for interview being shown any preference, especially without the rating. Equally, I don't see anyone non-airbus who made it through to the pool last time round being shown any preference either.
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Old 10th May 2014, 23:20   #32 (permalink)
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Any ideas on the numbers required here? Is this a small fire fight or the start of a recruitment campaign again for experienced people, rated or non rated if needed.
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Old 10th May 2014, 23:21   #33 (permalink)
 
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In reply to Macdo. Ts and Cs, variety, etc...sounds like a good advert for Thomson to me! Short haul 737, short,mid, longhaul on the 756 or pure longhaul on the 787. Part of the large TUI airlines group, and add to that private health, loss of licence etc and a 15% Company contribution to your pension scheme. Definitely worth considering when they recruit again.
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Old 11th May 2014, 14:08   #34 (permalink)
 
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Hi all,

Good news for some that BA looks set to open some limited DEP recruitment.

Overall however, I think BA is far from the attractive option it used to be.

BA used to hoover up fo's from EZY for example. I fail to see why you would now leave EZY to join BA. I realise it's a difficult start at Easyjet, however, if the time to command there is 5/6/7 years, it makes a lot of financial sense to stay, especially if you have a few years under your belt there.

I believe an EZY captain gets a basic pay of £93k. Added to that, sector pay + loyalty bonus, you're looking at well over £100k. With the new 34 point payscales at BA, the ridiculous time to command, the uncertainty over shorthaul.. It'll take years to earn that.

There are BMI captains taking longhaul p1 slots on the 787 etc.. No senior captains retiring, the CRA of 65 looking set to be abolished.. A mountain of BMI fo's looking for longhaul p2 slots.. It is a real mountain to climb.
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Old 11th May 2014, 14:25   #35 (permalink)
 
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As someone else also mentioned, it's not just about the money.


If you want to do longhaul for the rest of your life, BA is for you. The majority of shorthaul are trips now (so I hear), so you might aswell be doing long haul.


I like being home most nights, I'm not a parent yet but I know that this will make a huge difference when I am.
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Old 11th May 2014, 15:13   #36 (permalink)
 
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If you want to do longhaul for the rest of your life, BA is for you. The majority of shorthaul are trips now (so I hear), so you might aswell be doing long haul.
Depends. I used to work for EZY (although on the Parc contract) and it was a no-brainer to move across. Very different if you have kids, I imagine, but I love finishing the day with a lazy beer and then retiring to a decent hotel in a European city. Not bothered about pay - in my third year here and earn upwards of £70k with a bit of overtime, plus guaranteed increments for the next thirty years. Anyone who says PP24 was sustainable is deluding themselves.

The Airbus fleet now has Tel Aviv, Baku, Amman, Beirut etc with a day off downroute and easy flying without the faff of jet lag.

The cabin crew are generally pretty good but there's still a weird gulf - pilots are referred to as "flight deck" or "tech crew", even by managers, and it's bloody annoying being handed the last two meal choices after the rest of the crew have cooked and eaten the others first.

Granted, there's a lot of BMI P2s, but equally a lot of them are getting on a bit. ;-)
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Old 11th May 2014, 15:44   #37 (permalink)
 
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Firsty Ferret, you're right, the idea of enjoying a beer downroute does sound appealing!


I always thought that the career paths in flying are a bit back to front (SH first then LH). At the beginning of my career (which I am now, mid twenties and have been with easy for 6 years), I would have loved to do long haul, or something similar. However I know that as time moves on and the older I get, I will want to be at home more and more, and the time away might start feeling a little stale if I'm ever blessed (cursed?) with little ones running around at home.
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Old 11th May 2014, 16:04   #38 (permalink)
 
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The problem with easyJet is the sheer relentlessness of it. Can you imagine doing 35+ years of 5453? Long 4 sector days, day after day, rounded off with a Larnaca or something on the end? I couldn't and that's why I left. That and the hopeless roster stability - every single time I checked in or out and yep, there is the red writing of doom. Life just became impossible to plan.

In 3 years at BA I've had my roster change ONCE and that was them taking a trip off me for training! What price do you put on that? Bidline is an excellent rostering system, probably the best. We'll fight to keep it and as long as we do, that's worth the quick(ish) command I could have had, for me at least.
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Old 11th May 2014, 16:19   #39 (permalink)
 
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The other point is that BA FOs are given somewhat more autonomy in how they run the operation on "their" sector than at EZY (this has changed a bit since BMI merged due to their autocratic approach to CRM).

You can do as much or as little as you want, but in general you can choose fuel, brief the crew, handle the tech log, liaise with ground staff, do all on-board PAs, autoland, park etc. Training co-pilots, management opportunities, sim stand-ins, technical roles, recruitment etc.

Briefing is easier - we don't labour our way through every waypoint on the SID but instead focus on the specific threats of the day - and most Captains are pretty easygoing.

But... (and it's a big "but")

Heathrow stinks. The crew car park is full. The buses don't run often enough. You're nearly always holding. Stands are frequently occupied, or lacking someone to turn on the guidance or position the bridge.
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Old 11th May 2014, 21:47   #40 (permalink)
 
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Good to see people looking at more than the money here. If you became a Pilot to travel and see the places you fly then Easyjet probably isn't the best place for it. I've been at Easy for 7 years and Captain for 2 and can't imagine staying for another 35! I would seriously consider BA if I passed the selection. I think if you have even the faintest desire to join you should apply while it's open and worry about the finer detail if they offer you the job. Variety is the spice of life!
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