Terms and EndearmentThe forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.
At the end of the day it's not very complicated , you either produce or perish , if IB cannot produce a ROI for it's stakeholders then it's goom bye.
The blame game and union strikes at many world airlines , faced with the same situation , did nothing but worsen the final outcome for their employees.
The last post pretty much summarizes the way the South sees the North even if the origin of the poster is unknown. The argument goes; current problems have all been imported from somewhere else....things were all much better before. You might as well go on and add something along the lines that 'at least the trains ran on time in the good old days and everyone knew their place....of course sadly a very long time ago.'
My favorite was always 'why is Iberia like the holy family.... because the son always sits on the right hand side of the father.' (Getting a job was clearly easier if you had connections.) Anyone suggesting things could be done better does not understand and must be wrong. Given BA's recent experience with BM it is a fair question just how much Iberia is worth....I think a minus value is perfectly possible. As the Belgians, Swiss, Italians, Greeks and many more have discovered national airlines are not immune from going bust.
Last edited by lederhosen; 12th Nov 2012 at 06:54.
Two comments on this mornings Spanish (RTVE) breakfast programme by (not very perceptive/ impressive IMO) Madrid based journalists:
i) (Less interesting) "BA stole the Madrid-Berlin service from Iberia" [No I'm not agreeing, I'm just repeating for others who know more to comment.]
ii) (More interesting) The Spanish government is the biggest single shareholder at roughly 15% overall of the IAG holding group via two sources
a) roughly 3 percent from a straightforward government owned industrial holding group b) roughly 12% via the bust bank Bankia (formerly Caja de Madrid) now in the hands of the govt due to the crass mis-management of this bank at the hands of PP grandee Sr Rodrigo Rato, former senior minister as Finance Minister and confidant of ex Spanish premier Sr José Maria Aznar and also former head of the IMF no less !
Last edited by BigFrank; 12th Nov 2012 at 10:40.
Reason: Add: "as Finance Minister"
Depone has got it right - in Spain no rules and no common sense. In Britain, all rules and no common sense. In Germany, rules applied with common sense. No surprises as to why the relative economic order follows the same ranking.
Regrettably for IB pilots, there are the last "flag-carrier" left unreformed. There are two options, clear to anyone who's gone through this before. Dig in and the end is nigh or work to attempt to influence the inevitable change. I wish you well. Any pilot who wishes to see a reduction in T&C's at any airline is delusional, we're all in one marketplace together. Regrettably in this case, taking the hit and surviving is better than going under and surrendering the market to ruinair. Remember 90% of what you have now is better than 100% of ryanair.
What goes around comes around. Remember what iberia did to Viasa and other companies 16 years ago they drove them to bankruptcy and stole from them with overpriced services and of course got rid of old 727's and sold them with 777 prices. Stole our routes I have nothing but bad wishes for that shi... Airline I hope that you suffer the way we did. Enough said
but then again corruption in Latin countries allows for infiltration of corrupt northern european countries that are waging an ever easier (no opposition) economic war against southern europe.
It might be worth checking out the likes of the Santander Group and Ferrovial before getting too carried away with that argument....I don't think they have many fans in northern Europe.
I could go back umpteen years and hear the same rhetoric when Caledonion merged with BUA. The same questions, the same arguments, and it must have happened umpteen times since as well.
To save you reading that blog it basically says Iberia has been profitable since 2000, then BA came along who were close to bankruptcy, stole Iberias Mexico and Johannesburg routes and as a result Iberia are now bankrupt. It doesn't mention how BA moved from being close to bankruptcy to profitability, it doesn't mention that BA flew to JNB and MEX long before IAG came on the scene (and hasn't increased capacity to either destination in the last 7 years), and doesn't explain how Iberia have lost money for the last 5 years even though IAG came into existence only 3 years ago. Basically, the foreigners are all to blame and Iberias demise has nothing to do with Iberia.
Indeed that is what it basically says and is utter rubbish. Many people in Spain are angry at the moment and it would be easy to blame foreigners. I can understand that and it must be so difficult when you are being pushed around from all sides. SAS we note are also in dire trouble; perhaps they are blaming the foreigners as well for all we know. IB has taken too long to adapt and is too small to have much thump worldwide on its own. There would have had to have been some kind of merger in any case; if not I fear they would have followed SABENA and SWISSAIR down the path of those that could not adapt or, were too small to cope with different practices.
Employees are the face of the company, and particularly on the ground and in Barajas, a lot of blame as to why passengers like me decline or refuse to fly with Iberia rests. It's all about bums in seats. However, saying this there is the element of mismanagement and other issues, as to why Iberia is in the doldrums. To, whomever, thinks the employees are blameless, if you continue to believe this, then obviously, stay with your head stuck in the sand, because you will never see the truth
Cross reading this with the BCN again! thread I note the aircraft involved and the troubles at IB. Involved in the other thread was a rare visitor these days to BCN an IB mainline aircraft. Also involved was an EZ aircraft, that airline has now taken over the terminal previously used by the IB shuttle flights to MAD and abandoned by them. EZ must by now be one of the principal operators at the airport. It has its own neat terminal tagged onto the end of the vastly under used old terminal. Aerolinias Argentinas are making a success of a nonstop to EZE never attempted by IB from that airport, you have to go via MAD. Additionaly U.S. carriers are also doing pretty well on nonstops from BCN; again never attempted by IB. Air Canada are also present as are Singapore Airlines, Pakistan International etc all flying routes never attempted by IB. Surely if IB survives it should change its name to Madrid Airlines!
Surely if IB survives it should change its name to Madrid Airlines!
Just like BA should change theirs to London Airways. Maybe they could both just be called Capital Airlines, thus creating one brand only. Loads of synergies there, a win-win for all.
