Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes
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What I find amusing is that anyone should find this surprising.
Read the FT article and you'll find alot of 'shoulds','coulds' and 'mights'. Once again it is one of a plethora of 'plans' that go through the rumour mill. This one possibly has legs but it remains to be seen if the customer booking through flights wants to start his/her journey on a low cost airline. Continuity of a feeder product is important in these cases hence that, plus the difficulty of rapid turnaround ops through LHR make it a little tricky.
Personally I don't see this taking routes but, possibly, enhancing routes through Gatwick.
Time will tell but, to rain on Wonkers parade, it is not an unexpected ploy by those of us who have the ability to see beyond BA's hallowed halls and will be dealt with accordingly, like adults.
Read the FT article and you'll find alot of 'shoulds','coulds' and 'mights'. Once again it is one of a plethora of 'plans' that go through the rumour mill. This one possibly has legs but it remains to be seen if the customer booking through flights wants to start his/her journey on a low cost airline. Continuity of a feeder product is important in these cases hence that, plus the difficulty of rapid turnaround ops through LHR make it a little tricky.
Personally I don't see this taking routes but, possibly, enhancing routes through Gatwick.
Time will tell but, to rain on Wonkers parade, it is not an unexpected ploy by those of us who have the ability to see beyond BA's hallowed halls and will be dealt with accordingly, like adults.
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It really doesn't take a genius to work out why this article has appeared in the papers the very week of the deadline for negotiations between Iberia management and the Iberia unions.
As for BA, Vueling taking over LHR short-haul will never happen. Transfer passengers will expect to transfer on to BA and Club passengers will expect a short-haul business class product.
What *might* happen is Vueling setting up a base at LGW to go head to head on short-haul routes that Easyjet has largely seen BA off with BA doing long-haul and holiday short-haul routes to the Canary Islands etc. Don't forget the big draw of the Executive Club for business and leisure passengers and Vueling's brand profile in the UK market is tiny compared to BA.
As for BA, Vueling taking over LHR short-haul will never happen. Transfer passengers will expect to transfer on to BA and Club passengers will expect a short-haul business class product.
What *might* happen is Vueling setting up a base at LGW to go head to head on short-haul routes that Easyjet has largely seen BA off with BA doing long-haul and holiday short-haul routes to the Canary Islands etc. Don't forget the big draw of the Executive Club for business and leisure passengers and Vueling's brand profile in the UK market is tiny compared to BA.
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As for BA, Vueling taking over LHR short-haul will never happen. Transfer passengers will expect to transfer on to BA and Club passengers will expect a short-haul business class product.
What *might* happen is Vueling setting up a base at LGW to go head to head on short-haul routes that Easyjet has largely seen BA off with BA doing long-haul and holiday short-haul routes to the Canary Islands etc.
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small base
IF they want to brand it BA.
Vueling has nowhere near the marketing impact, brand wise, as BA. It would be a big balls decision to make considering that the prime aim of the BA shorthaul network is as a feeder to the LH network with continuity of brand/product etc.
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"If they want the brand AND want to base out of the UK then, for all aircraft in excess of 100 seats, they must be flown by BA mainline flight crew. That was legally ratified during the Openskies dispute and even IAG couldn't get round it"
That sounds similar to what we have in Iberia,according to our Convenio Colectivo (ranked as law) IbExpress cannot exist unless it is flown by IB pilots...but it does indeed exist and we do not fly it.
So we had to force the Laudo (government mediation) by going into strikes,the result of this longish legal battle is that Ibexpress is still there,no IB pilots fly it and they keep growing and hiring.Even though the Laudo says they cannot.
Against the law,but who cares?.
We can take this to court,of course.But after the trial and appelations are over years will have passed,and no judge will have the b&lls to shut down a +50 planes airline,so they might get a paltry fine.If we win,that is.
About the transfers,business class pax etc...same could be said for IB in MAD.And there have been thousands of complaints by Business class pax who did not want to fly Vueling or IbExpress.They have been ignored.End of story.
Quick turnaround times in Heathrow?,they don't need them.Vueling is going to be cheaper than BA,long or short turnaround.
So in our experience the new rules are,there are no rules.For them.
I would not ignore this threat,as distasteful as it might be.I hope your reps are busy gathering info and considering options.
On a more optimistic note i just cannot see any strategic advantage in starting a war on the BA front before the IB thing is wrapped up.
So maybe this is all BS.
Or maybe the IB thing IS allready wrapped up...
In countdown mode over here...
That sounds similar to what we have in Iberia,according to our Convenio Colectivo (ranked as law) IbExpress cannot exist unless it is flown by IB pilots...but it does indeed exist and we do not fly it.
So we had to force the Laudo (government mediation) by going into strikes,the result of this longish legal battle is that Ibexpress is still there,no IB pilots fly it and they keep growing and hiring.Even though the Laudo says they cannot.
Against the law,but who cares?.
We can take this to court,of course.But after the trial and appelations are over years will have passed,and no judge will have the b&lls to shut down a +50 planes airline,so they might get a paltry fine.If we win,that is.
About the transfers,business class pax etc...same could be said for IB in MAD.And there have been thousands of complaints by Business class pax who did not want to fly Vueling or IbExpress.They have been ignored.End of story.
Quick turnaround times in Heathrow?,they don't need them.Vueling is going to be cheaper than BA,long or short turnaround.
So in our experience the new rules are,there are no rules.For them.
I would not ignore this threat,as distasteful as it might be.I hope your reps are busy gathering info and considering options.
On a more optimistic note i just cannot see any strategic advantage in starting a war on the BA front before the IB thing is wrapped up.
So maybe this is all BS.
Or maybe the IB thing IS allready wrapped up...
In countdown mode over here...
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At the moment it is all rumours and conjecture, nothing more.
It is already being discussed within the BACC and, as always, I'm sure that the full picture and a truthful way forward will eventually be revealed.
From my experience this little 'leak' is a way of testing the markets to see how the stock prices react to such revelations. The last thing IAG want at the moment is to lurch from one crisis to another. I'm not even sure if the costs saved over the long term would be worth the potential costs involved with IA.
Will it happen? Who knows. It will be dealt with when the time comes. Not going to loose sleep over it that's for certain.
It is already being discussed within the BACC and, as always, I'm sure that the full picture and a truthful way forward will eventually be revealed.
From my experience this little 'leak' is a way of testing the markets to see how the stock prices react to such revelations. The last thing IAG want at the moment is to lurch from one crisis to another. I'm not even sure if the costs saved over the long term would be worth the potential costs involved with IA.
Will it happen? Who knows. It will be dealt with when the time comes. Not going to loose sleep over it that's for certain.
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If they want the brand AND want to base out of the UK then, for all aircraft in excess of 100 seats, they must be flown by BA mainline flight crew. That was legally ratified during the Openskies dispute and even IAG couldn't get round it.
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Incidentally, I believe 'outsourcing' of at least some of BA's current short haul work is inevitable in the long term. It is one reason why I believe it was a mistake to offer cost savings from longhaul when BA had a particular figure in mind for shorthaul. We gave something away for nothing there, because BA will be back for the rest of that shorthaul money, and if they don't get it they'll 'outsource'.
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Perhaps you could try that again, only this time use English.
At the moment it is all rumours and conjecture, nothing more
With the desperation I see on PPRuNe from pilots seeking any flying jobs paying a decent wage makes me realise that this is more than rumour and conjecture.
Why pay £145,000pa and £100,000 pension for life when you can get away with paying £40,000 and pension crumbs?
WW will see this as a no brainer.
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Please don't be so arrogant JT.
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 29th Jan 2013 at 16:41.
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When someone comes onto an English language based website to spit bitterness and rubbish about the company that provides my living I will be as rude back. Also, from someone who deliberately takes every opportunity to display their hatred for BA pilots on a public website, I will take no lessons in manners or tone. In short - do not presume to lecture me on what I may or may not say. You will not determine what my freedom if speech is limited by.
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to display their hatred for BA pilots
JT
WWW is a failed everything. Failed at being a pilot, failed at running a TU, failed at doing admin, failed at resisting change, failed in Court.
One non-failure is being an annoying troll.
Is it worth the energy?
WWW is a failed everything. Failed at being a pilot, failed at running a TU, failed at doing admin, failed at resisting change, failed in Court.
One non-failure is being an annoying troll.
Is it worth the energy?
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Some of my best friends are ......
Isn't that the classic defence of the racist, homophobe etc. Surely you can do better WWW. It might even be more believable if your posting record did not show your hatred of BALPA and BA pilots. Sadly you take every opportunity to have a go at BA pilots and BALPA and in doing so a sideswipe at the company. That is a matter of record and doing a simple search of posts made by you demonstrates this.
Isn't that the classic defence of the racist, homophobe etc. Surely you can do better WWW. It might even be more believable if your posting record did not show your hatred of BALPA and BA pilots. Sadly you take every opportunity to have a go at BA pilots and BALPA and in doing so a sideswipe at the company. That is a matter of record and doing a simple search of posts made by you demonstrates this.
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 29th Jan 2013 at 17:06.
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No swipe at honourable BA pilots at all. A swipe at their 'remaining neutral' union that let a fellow TUC affiliate down, yes. I believe the thought of a considerable pay cut has rattled your cage somewhat.
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A swipe at their 'remaining neutral' union that let a fellow TUC affiliate down
Oh, and I seem to remember that Gatwick flew a FULL programme during your purile spat, no problems getting your CC colleagues to work down there after you shafted them so many times.
This will be dealt with in the same way that we have dealt with all changes in the past. With adult, sensible negotiation. You remember that don't you? On no, it's never been on the BASSA radar has it.
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By the way, it's "your cage" not "you're cage" one denotes possession the other says that I am a cage.
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 29th Jan 2013 at 17:42.