Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apporizaje. SEPLA are in the same position as BASSA. It doesn't matter what cost savings are put forward, even if they are analysed by Sir John Vickers, it will make no difference. Walsh wants to break your union, once and for all. Then there is nothing to stop him imposing whatever he wishes.
The problem on this forum, is that the 'attack dog' pilots who were sympathetic to Walsh breaking the cabin crew union, will not accept any other version of events apart from their own warped recollections, in order to justify their actions.
As Relight says, BA's pilots have chummed the waters for years in order to stave off a direct attack on their T&C's, which Iberia flight crew now face. Since 2001 it has been all downhill, especially with the introduction of the hourly rate. BA flight crew never mention how much B of E QE policy and a weak Pound has effected their purchasing power.
I predict the 31/1/13 deadline will arrive and new T&C's will be imposed. All the media firepower will be brought to bear on SEPLA and Iberia's flight crew. If you strike, you can expect pictures of your houses or those of your reps to be printed in national newspapers, as every facet of your pay and privileges are exposed in order to whip up sentiment against the strikers. It is going to be a dirty fight. I hope you are ready for it?
The problem on this forum, is that the 'attack dog' pilots who were sympathetic to Walsh breaking the cabin crew union, will not accept any other version of events apart from their own warped recollections, in order to justify their actions.
As Relight says, BA's pilots have chummed the waters for years in order to stave off a direct attack on their T&C's, which Iberia flight crew now face. Since 2001 it has been all downhill, especially with the introduction of the hourly rate. BA flight crew never mention how much B of E QE policy and a weak Pound has effected their purchasing power.
I predict the 31/1/13 deadline will arrive and new T&C's will be imposed. All the media firepower will be brought to bear on SEPLA and Iberia's flight crew. If you strike, you can expect pictures of your houses or those of your reps to be printed in national newspapers, as every facet of your pay and privileges are exposed in order to whip up sentiment against the strikers. It is going to be a dirty fight. I hope you are ready for it?
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apporizaje. SEPLA are in the same position as BASSA. It doesn't matter what cost savings are put forward, even if they are analysed by Sir John Vickers, it will make no difference
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
The essential chronology is as follows;
i) 24th February – At a National Sectional Panel ("NSP") meeting Mr Francis told the Union that in the then financial circumstances BA looked to save £82m as against the cost of cabin crew. Throughout Unite had separately identified representatives from both its BASSA and Amicus factions.
ii) 26th February – At a further such meeting Mr Francis handed over a list setting out 32 prospective costs saving measures and invited discussion. Of these measures nine involved reduction in current cabin crew complements.
iii) February – April BA met 14 times with BASSA and four times with Amicus in a mixture of formal and informal meetings.
iv) May – Following release of the figures for the first quarter (see para 12 above) the required costs saving was increased to £140m.
v) 1st June – BA issue a statutory HR1 form proposing up to 2000 redundancies amongst cabin crew. BA and the Union meet at a formal NSP.
vi) 9th – 30th June – Intermittent talks at Heathrow Renaissance Hotel. In the course of such;
a) 15th June BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together
b) 23rd June BA put forward a proposal in writing. This included specific reductions in crew complements
c) 25th June – Unite put forward a written Pay and Productivity Proposal, claiming that it would save BA £173m. It proposed some alterations in the cabin crew complements but no significant reduction. Thereafter BA tried to understand and analyse the cost saving as anticipated by Unite, bringing in accountants, Price Waterhouse Cooper. The latter's assessment was that the saving would be about £53m. Unite refused to have further discussions over this issue, whether with BA or the accountants.
In the overall result, the meetings broke up without reaching any joint conclusion.
vii) 29th June – Mr Francis sent a letter to each cabin crew member, setting out BA's proposals, such including a reduction in cabin crew complements.
viii) 21st-23rd July – An abortive session at ACAS.
ix) 21st, 30th September and 1st and 2nd October – Following an agreement reached between BA's CEO and the Joint General Secretaries of Unite, there was a further sustained resort to ACAS for conciliation. I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA.
i) 24th February – At a National Sectional Panel ("NSP") meeting Mr Francis told the Union that in the then financial circumstances BA looked to save £82m as against the cost of cabin crew. Throughout Unite had separately identified representatives from both its BASSA and Amicus factions.
ii) 26th February – At a further such meeting Mr Francis handed over a list setting out 32 prospective costs saving measures and invited discussion. Of these measures nine involved reduction in current cabin crew complements.
iii) February – April BA met 14 times with BASSA and four times with Amicus in a mixture of formal and informal meetings.
iv) May – Following release of the figures for the first quarter (see para 12 above) the required costs saving was increased to £140m.
v) 1st June – BA issue a statutory HR1 form proposing up to 2000 redundancies amongst cabin crew. BA and the Union meet at a formal NSP.
vi) 9th – 30th June – Intermittent talks at Heathrow Renaissance Hotel. In the course of such;
a) 15th June BASSA had a heated argument with Amicus and refused to cooperate together
b) 23rd June BA put forward a proposal in writing. This included specific reductions in crew complements
c) 25th June – Unite put forward a written Pay and Productivity Proposal, claiming that it would save BA £173m. It proposed some alterations in the cabin crew complements but no significant reduction. Thereafter BA tried to understand and analyse the cost saving as anticipated by Unite, bringing in accountants, Price Waterhouse Cooper. The latter's assessment was that the saving would be about £53m. Unite refused to have further discussions over this issue, whether with BA or the accountants.
In the overall result, the meetings broke up without reaching any joint conclusion.
vii) 29th June – Mr Francis sent a letter to each cabin crew member, setting out BA's proposals, such including a reduction in cabin crew complements.
viii) 21st-23rd July – An abortive session at ACAS.
ix) 21st, 30th September and 1st and 2nd October – Following an agreement reached between BA's CEO and the Joint General Secretaries of Unite, there was a further sustained resort to ACAS for conciliation. I heard evidence as to the course of events at ACAS and the following emerged. The BASSA and Amicus factions were separately represented and sat in separate rooms. Despite the efforts of ACAS they could not be persuaded to join forces for a meeting with BA. The latter raised the possibility of separate agreements with the respective factions but, understandably, that did not appeal. In the overall result there was no meeting between the Union and BA.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And let's not forget when crew exercised their legal right to strike, what professional stand ins were recruited.
BA pilots post shocking, foul-mouthed rants on Facebook over cabin work after breaking strike - Mirror Online
Hotel porter, 29, dies after saving BA crew from fire in bedroom - News - London Evening Standard
British Airways 'paying pilots £166 an hour to cover strike' - Telegraph
BA strike breaker ‘to suicide bomber’ | The Sun |News
BA pilots post shocking, foul-mouthed rants on Facebook over cabin work after breaking strike - Mirror Online
Hotel porter, 29, dies after saving BA crew from fire in bedroom - News - London Evening Standard
British Airways 'paying pilots £166 an hour to cover strike' - Telegraph
BA strike breaker ‘to suicide bomber’ | The Sun |News
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 17th Jan 2013 at 20:24.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And let's not forget when crew exercised their legal right to strike, what professional stand ins were recruited.
BA pilots post shocking, foul-mouthed rants on Facebook over cabin work after breaking strike - Mirror Online
BA pilots post shocking, foul-mouthed rants on Facebook over cabin work after breaking strike - Mirror Online
Oh, WW I'm sorry you walked right into that one.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And that just goes to show how low you will go. I was there in BKK on that trip with that crew and I assure you it had nothing to do with the strike other than it was a strike breaking crewmember who had a very unfortunate accident and yet there was BASSA using a tragic story for their own ends.
As usual much was invented and bandied about by BASSA about this event and yet, guess what? SURPRISE, SURPRISE there wasn't a single BASSA REP present.
You consider yourself such a wit WW, and you're half right
As usual much was invented and bandied about by BASSA about this event and yet, guess what? SURPRISE, SURPRISE there wasn't a single BASSA REP present.
You consider yourself such a wit WW, and you're half right
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And when the professional strike breakers were away, here's a a day of the schedule for Europe flights.
LHR-ARN ... BA780 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-BCN ... BA484 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-BCN ... BA486 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-BRU ... BA392 ... Viking Airlines ... B737-800
LHR-CDG ... BA316 ... Viking Airlines ... B737-800
LHR-DME ... BA872 ... Arkefly ... B767-300ER
LHR-DUS ... BA936 ... Titan Airways ... B757-200
LHR-DUS ... BA938 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-FCO ... BA548 ... Titan Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FCO ... BA556 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FRA ... BA902 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FRA ... BA912 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-GVA ... BA726 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-GVA ... BA732 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-GVA ... BA734 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-LCA ... BA662 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-LIN ... BA564 ... Astraeus ... B757-200
LHR-LYS ... BA360 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-LYS ... BA362 ... Titan Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-MUC ... BA948 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-MUC ... BA950 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-MUC ... BA954 ... Astraeus ... B757-200
LHR-MXP ... BA566 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-NCE ... BA344 ... Titan Airways ... B757-200
LHR-OSL ... BA762 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-OSL ... BA766 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-STR ... BA918 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-STR ... BA920 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-TXL ... BA982 ... Astraeus ... A320-200
LHR-TXL ... BA986 ... Astraeus ... A320-200
LHR-ARN ... BA780 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-BCN ... BA484 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-BCN ... BA486 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-BRU ... BA392 ... Viking Airlines ... B737-800
LHR-CDG ... BA316 ... Viking Airlines ... B737-800
LHR-DME ... BA872 ... Arkefly ... B767-300ER
LHR-DUS ... BA936 ... Titan Airways ... B757-200
LHR-DUS ... BA938 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-FCO ... BA548 ... Titan Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FCO ... BA556 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FRA ... BA902 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-FRA ... BA912 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-GVA ... BA726 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-GVA ... BA732 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-GVA ... BA734 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-LCA ... BA662 ... Euro Atlantic Airways ... B757-200
LHR-LIN ... BA564 ... Astraeus ... B757-200
LHR-LYS ... BA360 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-LYS ... BA362 ... Titan Airways ... B767-300ER
LHR-MUC ... BA948 ... Transavia ... B737
LHR-MUC ... BA950 ... Jet2.com ... B757-200
LHR-MUC ... BA954 ... Astraeus ... B757-200
LHR-MXP ... BA566 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-NCE ... BA344 ... Titan Airways ... B757-200
LHR-OSL ... BA762 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-OSL ... BA766 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-STR ... BA918 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-STR ... BA920 ... Jet2.com ... B737-300
LHR-TXL ... BA982 ... Astraeus ... A320-200
LHR-TXL ... BA986 ... Astraeus ... A320-200
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And that just goes to show how low you will go.
Did you report it to the Press Complaints Commission at the time to hi light their inaccuracies?
SURPRISE, SURPRISE there wasn't a single BASSA REP present
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 17th Jan 2013 at 20:49.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WW
Firstly, you resurrected this event and tried to use it on this forum for your own ends, a confirmed BASSA militant. Secondly, The ES wasn't there either so you have to ask yourselves where they got their account from: it wasn't from me, I can tell you.
I will retract the comment if you retract the reference. A man died that day and left a family without a father. He already had a serious heart condition, and the CC member concerned has to live with it for the rest of his life even though the dead man was a ticking time bomb.
Count (Oh it's tempting, I tell you):
This is
I have been saying all along it is because we have worked with management all these years (sorry, our BACC have) that we enjoy the conditions that we do in this day and age. We are the envy of most other airlines; there are 100 applicants for every pilot job in BA, even without the great pension scheme we used to have.
But you keep demonstrating to people on this thread how not to do it because you're doing a great job. What they can see is that we are sitting pretty and have no quarrel with our management; they pay us very well to do what we like to do and in return we reward them with good, safe service. I have a great promotion prospects. Oh, and we have the type of relationship with them whereby there is no need to IMPOSE anything.
I know which way I prefer to live and work.
Firstly, you resurrected this event and tried to use it on this forum for your own ends, a confirmed BASSA militant. Secondly, The ES wasn't there either so you have to ask yourselves where they got their account from: it wasn't from me, I can tell you.
I will retract the comment if you retract the reference. A man died that day and left a family without a father. He already had a serious heart condition, and the CC member concerned has to live with it for the rest of his life even though the dead man was a ticking time bomb.
Count (Oh it's tempting, I tell you
):This is
I have been saying all along it is because we have worked with management all these years (sorry, our BACC have) that we enjoy the conditions that we do in this day and age. We are the envy of most other airlines; there are 100 applicants for every pilot job in BA, even without the great pension scheme we used to have. But you keep demonstrating to people on this thread how not to do it because you're doing a great job. What they can see is that we are sitting pretty and have no quarrel with our management; they pay us very well to do what we like to do and in return we reward them with good, safe service. I have a great promotion prospects. Oh, and we have the type of relationship with them whereby there is no need to IMPOSE anything.
I know which way I prefer to live and work.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Iberia pilots offering pay cuts and they want more, hold fast ! Iberia pilots
Los nuevos pilotos que se incorporen a Iberia tendrán una reducción salarial del 40% de media, según recoge el nuevo laudo emitido por Jaime Montalvo, de forma que un nuevo copiloto percibirá entre 28.000 y 38.000 euros al año, frente a los 88.000 que cobra actualmente en su nivel más bajo. De hecho, los pilotos de Iberia se habían mostrado dispuestos a bajar el sueldo hasta un 51% de nuevos contratados,
Iberia Express es “legal” y los pilotos tendrán que bajarse el sueldo un 10%. Ésas eran las principales conclusiones del primer laudo de Jaime Montalvo, tras anular la Audiencia Nacional el laudo arbitral entre Iberia y sus pilotos.
Ahora el tope salarial para los copilotos que operan en Express, con un límite de actividad de 14 años de antigüedad, será de 78.408 euros anuales, según el dictamen de Montalvo al que ha tenido acceso Europa Press.
Los nuevos pilotos que se incorporen a Iberia tendrán una reducción salarial del 40% de media, según recoge el nuevo laudo emitido por Jaime Montalvo, de forma que un nuevo copiloto percibirá entre 28.000 y 38.000 euros al año, frente a los 88.000 que cobra actualmente en su nivel más bajo. De hecho, los pilotos de Iberia se habían mostrado dispuestos a bajar el sueldo hasta un 51% de nuevos contratados,
Iberia Express es “legal” y los pilotos tendrán que bajarse el sueldo un 10%. Ésas eran las principales conclusiones del primer laudo de Jaime Montalvo, tras anular la Audiencia Nacional el laudo arbitral entre Iberia y sus pilotos.
Ahora el tope salarial para los copilotos que operan en Express, con un límite de actividad de 14 años de antigüedad, será de 78.408 euros anuales, según el dictamen de Montalvo al que ha tenido acceso Europa Press.
Last edited by Jimmy Hoffa Rocks; 23rd Jan 2013 at 12:22.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, there you go. What more is there to say.
Basically what that is saying (unless I am reading it wrong) is that the existing Iberia pilots are willing to allow their new colleagues to take a 51% lower wage in order to safeguard their 100% wage.
I realise that when the salaries were set the exchange rate was 160 ptas / 1 € or about £0.62 / 1€ but c'mon! 88,000 € for a yr 1 FO???? Not sustainable for a commercial airline in Europe today. Even the Americans realised that some years ago.
I think I'd be the first to agree: Hold fast Iberia pilots, good luck to you, if Iberia were MAKING 1.7m€ a day rather than losing it.
Basically what that is saying (unless I am reading it wrong) is that the existing Iberia pilots are willing to allow their new colleagues to take a 51% lower wage in order to safeguard their 100% wage.
I realise that when the salaries were set the exchange rate was 160 ptas / 1 € or about £0.62 / 1€ but c'mon! 88,000 € for a yr 1 FO???? Not sustainable for a commercial airline in Europe today. Even the Americans realised that some years ago.
I think I'd be the first to agree: Hold fast Iberia pilots, good luck to you, if Iberia were MAKING 1.7m€ a day rather than losing it.
Last edited by relightengine; 23rd Jan 2013 at 17:56.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IB and British will give SH flights to Vueling:
Iberia y British planean ceder gran parte de sus vuelos europeos a Vueling,Sector transporte. Expansin.com
And into english with google translate:
Google Translate
Everything's going fine,no worries lads!.
Iberia y British planean ceder gran parte de sus vuelos europeos a Vueling,Sector transporte. Expansin.com
And into english with google translate:
Google Translate
Everything's going fine,no worries lads!.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OMG! The boys from blighty never saw that one coming. They've given sooooo much up just to avoid BMI being set up as a subsidiary.
Quick, get on the phone to BALPA legal - we may be able to take industrial action as I'm sure the fight for survival is over. Oh wait a moment - they'll back down citing EU competition rules.
Ok, master plan let's all gang up together. We're stronger as a united voice, let's ask BASSA for a co-ordinated effort to attack this outrageous plan.
We're screwed guys - we've helped create a cabin crew low cost subsidiary at LHR - it's only us now on high pension/wages, we're finished! Hello Vueling UK, goodbye BA Eurofleet!
and I thought willie would stick to his word and protect us
Quick, get on the phone to BALPA legal - we may be able to take industrial action as I'm sure the fight for survival is over. Oh wait a moment - they'll back down citing EU competition rules.
Ok, master plan let's all gang up together. We're stronger as a united voice, let's ask BASSA for a co-ordinated effort to attack this outrageous plan.
We're screwed guys - we've helped create a cabin crew low cost subsidiary at LHR - it's only us now on high pension/wages, we're finished! Hello Vueling UK, goodbye BA Eurofleet!
and I thought willie would stick to his word and protect us
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 28th Jan 2013 at 13:45.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. IAG’s Vueling plan risks union conflict - FT.com
IAG’s Vueling plan risks union conflict
By Andrew Parker
International Airlines Group is eyeing a contentious plan to replace many of the European flights by British Airways and Iberia with services operated by Vueling, the Spanish low-cost carrier that IAG is proposing to buy.
IAG – formed through the merger of British Airways and Iberia in 2011 – could seek large cost savings by using Vueling to provide short-haul services currently done by its UK and Spanish airlines, said two people familiar with the group’s thinking.
More
On this story
Deadline for IAG cost-cutting deal looms
European airlines Rake’s on a plane
IAG takes off as FTSE holds steady
Iberia unions call off Christmas strikes
Iberia unions plan strikes to protest cuts
On this topic
Legacy airlines struggle amid competition
Iberia in fight for survival, chief says
Job cuts loom as IAG buys Spanish rival
IAG targets full control of Vueling
IN Airlines
Demand boosts Ryanair’s profits outlook
Rake to step down as easyJet chairman
Boeing battery fire ‘unprecedented’
United’s $620m loss dents industry rebound
However, such a move would put IAG on a fresh collision course with trade unions representing pilots and cabin crew at British Airways and Iberia, who would resist any initiative to hand over work to Vueling.
Iberia is already braced for strikes as it attempts to reach agreement with unions by the company’s January 31 deadline about a proposed restructuring of the Spanish airline – its difficulties are expected to push IAG to an operating loss of €120m in 2012.
Against this background, IAG in November made an offer of €113m for the 54 per cent of Vueling that the group does not own – Iberia already has a 46 per cent stake in the Barcelona-based low-cost carrier.
The group highlighted how Vueling was growing profitably. It recorded net income of €41.3m in the nine months to September 30, up 93 per cent compared with the same period in 2011.
Two people close to IAG said the planned Vueling transaction formed part of the group’s efforts to compete more effectively against low-cost carriers led by EasyJet and Ryanair.
Although no final decisions have been taken, one person said British Airways’ short-haul, point-to-point flights – including those based out of Gatwick airport – could be replaced by Vueling’s services.
Similar arrangements could be put in place in Spain, so that Vueling replaces Iberia’s short-haul services.
IAG declined to comment but unions would be certain to oppose Vueling’s expansion in this way.
Pay and perks at Vueling are lower than at British Airways and Iberia. Credit Suisse analysts estimate labour costs at British Airways and Iberia represented 34 per cent and 35 per cent of operating expenses excluding fuel in 2012 respectively, compared with 13 per cent at Vueling.
Link in english
Last edited by eagle21; 28th Jan 2013 at 14:02.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally, I'd be upset.
Last edited by Cough; 28th Jan 2013 at 18:14.